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Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 17:03
I remember (because I used to collect election literature as a hobby) that the candidates and range of political parties back in the day seemed zanier than today. There was an old chap called Bill Boaks who stood at by-elections all over the country as 'Democratic Monarchist Public Safety White Resident' and would usually collect about 50 votes. Then there was the Workers Revolutionary Party, which was a bit-like a souped-up Tooting Popular Front and had Vanessa Redgrave as a prominent member (Bernard Levin called them 'Vanessa's Loonies'). They wanted to replace Parliament with a 'workers government' but didn't say what that meant. Patrick Moore formed his own political party called The United Country Party: I remember that my mother thought it was about protecting the countryside but in fact it was to the right of the Tories who were 'too wet'.

The obscene racist graffiti of the National Front seemed to be in every city, suburb and town and I think they had an offshoot called the National Party in the North-West. Then - although this might have just been a London thing - there was the Socialist Party of Great Britain which wanted to 'abolish money' in the early 80s when most of the country was skint. Nice one. In 1979, Auberon Waugh stood against Jeremy Thorpe for the Dog Lovers Party as a tribute to Norman Scott's assassinated Great Dane.

Have I left anyone out? Oh yes: Sreaming Lord Sutch. We still have Howling Laud Hope (yes it is Laud not Lord) and the Elvis Lives Party, but they seem to be survivors of a bygone age.

Jay Mc
09-11-2017, 17:20
And The USA have Trump ;)

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 18:13
And The USA have Trump ;)

The USA also have millions of religious fundamentalists who are completely off the wall. And it's also the homeland of Political Correctness.

I. R. Fincham
09-11-2017, 18:56
Lord Buckethead. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Buckethead)

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 19:03
Lord Buckethead. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Buckethead)

Still going strong I see (if it's the same chap each time).

Richard1978
09-11-2017, 19:41
I remember the Natural Law being mentioned in the media a lot in the early 1990s but never seemed to make any headway & faded away.

I've noticed a lot of fringe parties aim for a niche area of politics, but if one of the mainstream parties start to occupy that niche the smaller ones don't have a chance.

marc
09-11-2017, 21:42
Screaming Lord Sutch, now that brings back memories of the 1980s.

Not the looney has people and the press portray. His main aim was to lampoon the main political parties. One of his best known policies was to put the Houses of Parliament on wheels, and transport it around the country. Some of his lunatic policies are now coming to fruition, 20 mph speed limits.

The Bootle by election on 24 May 1990, was their finest moment. They had more votes than the Social Democrat Party candidate. This was effectively the end of the S.D.P.. In the report that followed, Lord Sutch seemed shocked at the outcome.

Screaming Lord Sutch was not the Looney he was portrayed has. He was tea total. Before any election his party was standing in, he would hold a concert to offset the loss of his deposit etc.

When he sadly committed suicide, it left a deep void in politics. Many independent candidates, and some major political party candidates, would feel a cold shiver down their back when he appeared.

staffslad
09-11-2017, 21:54
I remember the Natural Law being mentioned in the media a lot in the early 1990s but never seemed to make any headway & faded away.

I've noticed a lot of fringe parties aim for a niche area of politics, but if one of the mainstream parties start to occupy that niche the smaller ones don't have a chance.



I think I remember the Natural Law Party got a party political or election broadcast sometime in the 90s. They were standing in enough constituencies to qualify for one or something like that.

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 22:04
I remember the Natural Law being mentioned in the media a lot in the early 1990s but never seemed to make any headway & faded away.

I've noticed a lot of fringe parties aim for a niche area of politics, but if one of the mainstream parties start to occupy that niche the smaller ones don't have a chance.

Oh yes, the Natural Law Party. They were disciples of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Beatles' onetime guru. They believed that the world could be saved by 'yogic flying' and their manifesto included replacing the Army with a kind of spiritual SAS: a crack regiment of yogic flyers. They were extremely wealthy and owned a vast mansion in the Chilterns called Mentor Towers, but the political venture cost them a lot in lost deposits.

The Maharishi's followers also have a centre in Skelmersdale where they fly in a yogic manner and claim to send waves of positive energy out from Skem to as far away as Yorkshire (I watched a documentary about this several years ago). The yogic flying looked like bouncing up and down with legs crossed but what do I know?

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 22:05
I think I remember the Natural Law Party got a party political or election broadcast sometime in the 90s. They were standing in enough constituencies to qualify for one or something like that.

I think they might have stood practically everywhere at some point in the 1990s. Somewhere I heard that they paid people to stand.

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 22:12
Screaming Lord Sutch, now that brings back memories of the 1980s.

Not the looney has people and the press portray. His main aim was to lampoon the main political parties. One of his best known policies was to put the Houses of Parliament on wheels, and transport it around the country. Some of his lunatic policies are now coming to fruition, 20 mph speed limits.

The Bootle by election on 24 May 1990, was their finest moment. They had more votes than the Social Democrat Party candidate. This was effectively the end of the S.D.P.. In the report that followed, Lord Sutch seemed shocked at the outcome.

Screaming Lord Sutch was not the Looney he was portrayed has. He was tea total. Before any election his party was standing in, he would hold a concert to offset the loss of his deposit etc.

When he sadly committed suicide, it left a deep void in politics. Many independent candidates, and some major political party candidates, would feel a cold shiver down their back when he appeared.


There's a great story there, Marc. When the "Loonies" beat the rump SDP (which had refused to merge with the Liberals), Screaming Lord Sutch rang up David Owen and suggested a merger. Apparently Owen just put the 'phone down on him.

He was far saner than he let on (Sutch that is, not Owen). He advocated votes at 18 (when the voting age was still 21) and later an equal age of consent for gay men. He was as you say more widely feared by the establishment politicians than they ever let on. Like many comedians, he suffered from depression: I think he could probably be described as bipolar. This led to his tragic early death.

In Liverpool, by the way, there's still a rump Liberal Party which refuses to merge with the Fib Dems. They still have a few Council seats.

Silver Bear
09-11-2017, 22:13
'Rainbow George' Weiss of Hampstead had a 'Vote for Yourself Party' and sometimes stood in several constituencies at once.

Richard1978
10-11-2017, 14:09
There's a great story there, Marc. When the "Loonies" beat the rump SDP (which had refused to merge with the Liberals), Screaming Lord Sutch rang up David Owen and suggested a merger. Apparently Owen just put the 'phone down on him.

He was far saner than he let on (Sutch that is, not Owen). He advocated votes at 18 (when the voting age was still 21) and later an equal age of consent for gay men. He was as you say more widely feared by the establishment politicians than they ever let on. Like many comedians, he suffered from depression: I think he could probably be described as bipolar. This led to his tragic early death.

In Liverpool, by the way, there's still a rump Liberal Party which refuses to merge with the Fib Dems. They still have a few Council seats.

Independent Local Radio was another idea of his, along with pubs open all day.

IIRC he was part of the Student's Union Party before founding the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Both Monty Python & Blackadder managed to get some good jokes about candidates like him.

George 1978
10-11-2017, 15:03
I would have even regarded the Green Party and its predecessor the Ecology Party as being eccentric in many ways. David Icke automatically comes to mind when he was their spokesman, and of course he has stood in by-elections a lot later.

And admittedly, the Conservative Party has had support from quite a few famous people who are, shall we say, unique. A combination of famous people mentioned as supporters had once been referred to as "dinner party from hell".

Silver Bear
10-11-2017, 16:27
I would have even regarded the Green Party and its predecessor the Ecology Party as being eccentric in many ways. David Icke automatically comes to mind when he was their spokesman, and of course he has stood in by-elections a lot later.

And admittedly, the Conservative Party has had support from quite a few famous people who are, shall we say, unique. A combination of famous people mentioned as supporters had once been referred to as "dinner party from hell".

Somehow I have a feeling that David Icke stood for the Ecology Party/Green Party on the Isle of Wight (whose inhabitants go to Portsmouth for the cultural life). But that was before his - shall we say - messianic phase. Did he stand in by-elections after he left the Greens?

Another footballer who had 'visions' was Glenn Hoddle, who adopted a a crude interpretation of karma and claimed that disabled people were being punished for their previous lives.

Silver Bear
10-11-2017, 16:34
Independent Local Radio was another idea of his, along with pubs open all day.

IIRC he was part of the Student's Union Party before founding the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Both Monty Python & Blackadder managed to get some good jokes about candidates like him.


... So we can blame him for LBC and 'Call Nigel Farage'. ... It'll be 'Ca-all Je-re-my Cor-byn' next.

On a less flippant note, I didn't know about the Student's Union Party but I agree that Screaming Lord Sutch was a man ahead of his time and should be rated far more highly than he has been.

George 1978
11-11-2017, 16:12
Somehow I have a feeling that David Icke stood for the Ecology Party/Green Party on the Isle of Wight (whose inhabitants go to Portsmouth for the cultural life). But that was before his - shall we say - messianic phase. Did he stand in by-elections after he left the Greens?


He didn't stand on the Isle of Wight but he lived there for many years. He stood in that David Davis by-election in 2008 with the slogan "The Big Picture". He was identified as "No Label" on the ballot paper.

UKIP have had a few "characters" over the years as well - a lot of them wanting to be London Mayor candidate or something like that.

Aaron Barschak is another one that comes to mind of course, although that was after the 1990s.

There was a man who changed his name by Deed Poll to Mr Blobby to stand in a 1995 by-election.

Arran
11-11-2017, 20:45
There were lots of 'one man and his dog' parties in the 1997 general election. This resulted in the creation of a register of political parties.

Does anybody remember the Literal Democrat Mark Here to Win and the Liberal Democrat Top Choice for Parliament from Winchester?

George 1978
11-11-2017, 23:46
There were lots of 'one man and his dog' parties in the 1997 general election. This resulted in the creation of a register of political parties.

Does anybody remember the Literal Democrat Mark Here to Win and the Liberal Democrat Top Choice for Parliament from Winchester?

You're thinking of Mark Oaten who was opposed by a Literal Democrat candidate in Winchester who won with just 640 votes, and the Lit Dems had got over 10,000 votes in the European Elections in 1999 - the Lib Dems complained to the Electoral Commission and they soon launched a rule that party descriptions cannot be too confusing or similar to existing names. Oaten won over incumbent Conservative candidate Gerry Malone with a majority of just two votes.

The by-election was rerun with the Literal Democrat candidate just getting 59 votes, and the Lib Dem candidate getting nearly 10,000 more votes - Lord Sutch was a candidate in that one as well. And Arthur Pendragon had stood in the same seat in 2005.

George 1978
11-11-2017, 23:54
Also, I remember Oaten wanted to put "Liberal Democrat - leader Paddy Ashdown" in his description in order to avoid confusion with his Literal Democrat candidate.

Arran
12-11-2017, 16:49
In bygone decades ballot slips did not list the names of the parties. Just the names of the candidates. Therefore if you wanted to vote Conservative in Wolverhampton South West then you had to know that the name of the candidate was John Enoch Powell.

George 1978
12-11-2017, 17:00
In bygone decades ballot slips did not list the names of the parties. Just the names of the candidates. Therefore if you wanted to vote Conservative in Wolverhampton South West then you had to know that the name of the candidate was John Enoch Powell.

As a matter of fact, candidates' descriptions can often give too much information these days to a voter. I noticed in a few recent elections that not only the full names of candidates are listed, but their home addresses as well - perhaps it is a bit too much personal information to list on a ballot paper. However, candidates can opt out and have "address in Cities of London and Westminster constituency" or something like that, and you can tell whether they are based in the same constituency that they are standing in, or not. I recall one candidate had given her address as being in Belgium - now we are leaving the EU, I assume that living so far away would not be as straightforward in the near future as it would have been when she stood as a candidate.

Arran
12-11-2017, 18:21
It's noteworthy that the election deposit has remained constant at £500 since 1987 and has not been adjusted inline with inflation. It is returned to candidates who manage to win at least 5% of the vote. Before 1987 the election deposit was £100 but it was only returned to candidates who managed to win at least 12.5% of the vote.

Silver Bear
12-11-2017, 21:00
In bygone decades ballot slips did not list the names of the parties. Just the names of the candidates. Therefore if you wanted to vote Conservative in Wolverhampton South West then you had to know that the name of the candidate was John Enoch Powell.

I think some Australian states still only have the name and not the party. In India, the party symbol is important because there is still a relatively low literacy rate.

J. Enoch Powell ended up as an ‘Official Unionist’. I don’t agree with some of the things he said because black music and black culture (Afro-Caribbean and African) have made a great contribution to Britain. So have the Chinese. But to call him a ‘racist’ is simple-minded.

Silver Bear
12-11-2017, 21:04
The ‘Literal Democrat’ (Richard Huggett) won a substantial vote in Winchester in 1997, but then there was a re-run which the Fib Dems won by a landslide.

The Liberal Party came third in Liverpool West Derby this year with the Fib Dem in third place.

Silver Bear
12-11-2017, 21:08
It’s a pity we have so few ‘characters’ standing for election. We now seem to have the bland leading the bland.

Arran
12-11-2017, 23:46
It’s a pity we have so few ‘characters’ standing for election. We now seem to have the bland leading the bland.

????????

I was thinking back in 2015 that England was moving from a 2 1/2 party system to a 2 + 2 party system. In recent years there had also been victories and strong performances from candidates outside of the establishment.

More recently England has moved closer to a 2 party system because of Jeremy Corbyn and a large fall in support for UKIP following the EU referendum.

staffslad
13-11-2017, 09:16
I agree that 'characters' or 'eccentrics' seem to have no place in modern politics, nor does anyone who expresses opinions that stray even ever so slightly outside what is deemed 'acceptable'. In my memory, politicians have never been so tiresomely bland and afraid to say what they really think. It is a consequence of 24-hour news and endless analysis. The media--print, TV, social etc--paints everything as either the worst thing that has ever happened or the best thing since sliced bread. Every word, every action is scrutinised in an attempt to fill the papers or airwaves. And are we better informed now than when news occupied a far smaller slice of airtime and we didn't have things like 'Twitterstorms'?

Silver Bear
13-11-2017, 13:10
????????

I was thinking back in 2015 that England was moving from a 2 1/2 party system to a 2 + 2 party system. In recent years there had also been victories and strong performances from candidates outside of the establishment.

More recently England has moved closer to a 2 party system because of Jeremy Corbyn and a large fall in support for UKIP following the EU referendum.

I find it hard to understand the cult of Jeremy Corbyn. He's a dreary little man with a whiny, droning voice and a bureaucratic, extreme politically correct mentality. He wants everyone to be 'equal' under the state - equally poor, stupid and mediocre, that is. His Shadow Cabinet is 'gender balanced' and that tells you all you need to know: he doesn't even appoint people on merit.

There probably be would be British 'boat people' if he got in.

Silver Bear
13-11-2017, 13:17
I agree that 'characters' or 'eccentrics' seem to have no place in modern politics, nor does anyone who expresses opinions that stray even ever so slightly outside what is deemed 'acceptable'. In my memory, politicians have never been so tiresomely bland and afraid to say what they really think. It is a consequence of 24-hour news and endless analysis. The media--print, TV, social etc--paints everything as either the worst thing that has ever happened or the best thing since sliced bread. Every word, every action is scrutinised in an attempt to fill the papers or airwaves. And are we better informed now than when news occupied a far smaller slice of airtime and we didn't have things like 'Twitterstorms'?

We are far less well-informed than we were in the 70s and 80s because much of the mass media is dominated by Z-list celeb culture and general blandness. There is a culture of PC hysteria which all of the political parties are part of - and we are all lumped into groups based on acronyms rather than treated as individuals. There there is the snowflake culture where everyone is constantly 'offended' by the least thing. The result is that even ordinary conversation is going to become a daring adventure. Who needs dictatorship when you can have political correctness and dumbing-down?

... Usually laugh at all the PC drivel, but stepping back I realise that it's actually not funny but quite scary. ...

Silver Bear
13-11-2017, 13:19
big-interview-marc-almond-i-find-that-modern-youth-modern-life-is-becoming-so-conservative-1-8185557 (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/whats-on/gigs-and-music/big-interview-marc-almond-i-find-that-modern-youth-modern-life-is-becoming-so-conservative-1-8185557)

This is exactly right and highly relevant to the above discussion.

Richard1978
13-11-2017, 19:09
I find it hard to understand the cult of Jeremy Corbyn. He's a dreary little man with a whiny, droning voice and a bureaucratic, extreme politically correct mentality. He wants everyone to be 'equal' under the state - equally poor, stupid and mediocre, that is. His Shadow Cabinet is 'gender balanced' and that tells you all you need to know: he doesn't even appoint people on merit.

There probably be would be British 'boat people' if he got in.

Many people are fed up with a Tory government who treats anyone with less than mid 5 figure income with complete contempt, especially as they led the right wing media dictate too much too them, along with too many working class "goons" who are fooled into voting against their best interests by playing the race card.

At the moment Labour are the only choice, & with a more centre ground leader they would well ahead in the polls,

Richard1978
13-11-2017, 19:11
We are far less well-informed than we were in the 70s and 80s because much of the mass media is dominated by Z-list celeb culture and general blandness. There is a culture of PC hysteria which all of the political parties are part of - and we are all lumped into groups based on acronyms rather than treated as individuals. There there is the snowflake culture where everyone is constantly 'offended' by the least thing. The result is that even ordinary conversation is going to become a daring adventure. Who needs dictatorship when you can have political correctness and dumbing-down?

... Usually laugh at all the PC drivel, but stepping back I realise that it's actually not funny but quite scary. ...

It's what happens if you let the right wing media get out of control, nearly 40 years of the tail wagging the dog.

Arran
14-11-2017, 07:36
We are far less well-informed than we were in the 70s and 80s because much of the mass media is dominated by Z-list celeb culture and general blandness. There is a culture of PC hysteria which all of the political parties are part of - and we are all lumped into groups based on acronyms rather than treated as individuals. There there is the snowflake culture where everyone is constantly 'offended' by the least thing. The result is that even ordinary conversation is going to become a daring adventure. Who needs dictatorship when you can have political correctness and dumbing-down?

... Usually laugh at all the PC drivel, but stepping back I realise that it's actually not funny but quite scary. ...

I disagree with this. The internet has enabled parties from outside of the Lib-Lab-Con establishment to cut through the media blackout that they faced in the 20th century. It has strongly contributed to the successes of the Green Party, UKIP, and the BNP.

Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.

Richard1978
14-11-2017, 14:13
Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.

Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.

It's as I mentioned before the fringe parties can get a boost if they push an idea the main parties won't touch, but hen they do the fringe ones fade away.

Silver Bear
14-11-2017, 16:30
Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.

They sort of ... rose without trace, in the sense that they didn't 'do' anything with their MEPs and Council seats. Unlike the Liberals in the 70s, they didn't get into community politics in a big way. They had only one idea (race and immigration) and that didn't translate into practical policies. I suppose the current emphasis on the 'white working class' is a lasting legacy, taken up by Ukip and the Brexiteers. Last time I looked - and I admit that I see this through an urban and specifically London lens - the working class was not just white, but very likely to be black or mixed race. In fact many working class areas are far more multi-ethnic than middle-class suburbs.

BTW, I have always wondered if Nick Griffin is really an obese woman dressed as a man. He looked a bit 'non-binary' and had a high-pitched voice with a slight nasal twang: in fact he was an almost exact soundalike for Caroline Wyatt, who used to be the BBC's Defence and then Religious Affairs correspondent.

Silver Bear
14-11-2017, 16:33
Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.

It's as I mentioned before the fringe parties can get a boost if they push an idea the main parties won't touch, but hen they do the fringe ones fade away.

UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.

George 1978
14-11-2017, 16:55
Before 1987 the election deposit was £100 but it was only returned to candidates who managed to win at least 12.5% of the vote.

The deposit was actually £150 from when it was introduced in 1918 right up until 1985.

Richard1978
14-11-2017, 18:52
UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.

I've heard a few amusing stories about UKIP & BNP elected candidates not having a clue what to do after being elected.

Arran
14-11-2017, 19:13
Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.

UKIP were soft as butter on immigration back in the early 2000s. Anybody who dared to question the government's immigration policy or claim that immigration is too high was suspected to be an infiltrator from the BNP. It's not clear whether UKIP toughened up their stance on immigration because they had realised that immigration genuinely was too high or whether they were worried about the rise of BNP support on the back of public sentiment about immigration.


UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.

UKIP were always weak at local level and their members were unenthusiastic about local politics because most of them joined to free Britain from the EU rather than deal with mundane matters like grass verges and blocked drains.

George 1978
15-11-2017, 19:39
I can understand why they reduced the deposit threshold in 1985 - quite a few Labour candidates lost their deposits in 1983 - Keith Vaz was one of them, and ironically enough, most of them would have saved their deposit if they had got the same percentage at the 1987 General Election.

Arran
15-11-2017, 20:24
They sort of ... rose without trace, in the sense that they didn't 'do' anything with their MEPs and Council seats. Unlike the Liberals in the 70s, they didn't get into community politics in a big way. They had only one idea (race and immigration) and that didn't translate into practical policies. I suppose the current emphasis on the 'white working class' is a lasting legacy, taken up by Ukip and the Brexiteers. Last time I looked - and I admit that I see this through an urban and specifically London lens - the working class was not just white, but very likely to be black or mixed race. In fact many working class areas are far more multi-ethnic than middle-class suburbs.

The BNP got into community politics in a big way. Maybe not in London but out in several provincial towns and cities they were serious committed to council elections with local activists door knocking in the cold and the rain campaigning on 'cracked pavement' local issues as well as immigration. Think about Sandwell, Burnley, Stoke, and Bradford to name a few. They even had (surprise?) victories in Derbyshire, Staffordshire Moorlands, Leicestershire, and Broxbourne in Hertfordshire.


Demographic changes in society mean that old broad class based politics is dying and identity politics is likely to be the way forwards. People tend to associate themselves with others who share their culture and interests rather than their social class. Round my way working class Muslims rub shoulders with Muslim doctors and accountants in the mosque but they do not rub shoulders with white non-Muslim working class English folk in the pub. The same working class Muslims watch Islam channel or Peace TV alongside the Muslim doctors and accountants rather than Eastenders and X-factor that the white non-Muslim working class English folk watch. White non-Muslim middle class English folk seem to hold the view that you are not middle class unless you drink wine on a regular basis but the Muslim doctors and accountants don't drink wine so are they middle class or not? Huge disparities in wealth and status are undeniable but there are times when I think that the traditional class system is a very English mindset that does not really apply to people who are part of certain other communities. Working class unity and solidarity are now the dreams of people who are living in the past.


BTW, I have always wondered if Nick Griffin is really an obese woman dressed as a man. He looked a bit 'non-binary' and had a high-pitched voice with a slight nasal twang: in fact he was an almost exact soundalike for Caroline Wyatt, who used to be the BBC's Defence and then Religious Affairs correspondent.


I cannot prove this but both myself and my mother suspect that Nick Griffin, aka Nick Gri££in and Griff Nickin, was an agent of the Conservative Party deliberately out to wreck the BNP when the Conservatives return to power. Hint: have a look at his father Edgar Griffin who was a long standing member of the Conservative Party and a high degree Freemason.


Even more sinister is second in command Simon Darby, aka 5IMon Darby, who is suspected to be a state agent. I find it strange how such a mediocre Nationalist, who talks about nothing but computers and wildlife, rises to deputy leader in such a short a space of time. Nobody knows where he gets his money from or how he managed to afford his grand house in Cannock. All attempts to find his upholstered furniture business in Dudley have been unsuccessful. Richard Barnbrook told a friend that Simon Darby ran a metal ores business but there has been no sign of this either.

Silver Bear
15-11-2017, 23:45
I can understand why they reduced the deposit threshold in 1985 - quite a few Labour candidates lost their deposits in 1983 - Keith Vaz was one of them, and ironically enough, most of them would have saved their deposit if they had got the same percentage at the 1987 General Election.

Keith Vaz: don’t you mean Jim the washing machine salesman!

Silver Bear
15-11-2017, 23:59
Many people are fed up with a Tory government who treats anyone with less than mid 5 figure income with complete contempt, especially as they led the right wing media dictate too much too them, along with too many working class "goons" who are fooled into voting against their best interests by playing the race card.

At the moment Labour are the only choice, & with a more centre ground leader they would well ahead in the polls,

I have a lot of sympathy for that but I’m just not convinced by Jeremy Corbyn. He comes across as a very weak leader. For example, he was virtually silent during the Brexit referendum and didn’t do anything to try to reach working-class voters who were likely to suffer the economic effects of Brexit (short term or long term). Then there was Shami Chakrabarti, who demanded (and got) a seat in the House of Lords after writing a very weak report on anti-Semitism. And in the last week, a real leader would have stepped in after the suicide of Carl Sergeant and taken a stand against a crazy witch hunt where people are not even told what they are being accused of! Instead he just hid behind ‘correct procedure’.
Weak, weak, weak.

There was a fair amount to be said for the pre-Thatcher ‘One Nation’ Tory Party which had a social conscience (and cared about the environment) but I can’t see them returning to that approach soon. A decent Centre party (not the Fib Dems) would be a good thing - and I would also like to have a fair voting system which didn’t rely so heavily on a few marginal seats.

Silver Bear
16-11-2017, 00:07
It's what happens if you let the right wing media get out of control, nearly 40 years of the tail wagging the dog.

We’ve got right-wing political correctness with the Mail accusing people of being ‘traitors’ etc., and left-wing political correctness where even modest criticism of extreme feminism is ‘sexist’ and we are lumped into artificial groupings like LGBT (even though none of these ‘letters’ have anything in common with each other) and BME (as if all ethnic minorities were the same). Genuine liberal reforms are very positive: thanks to New Labour I could have a civil partnership and thanks to David Cameron I’ve been able to marry my long-term partner). But political correctness is illiberal and an attempt to shut down discussion.

Arran
16-11-2017, 09:05
The problem with Labour today is that they have to simultaneously appease a diverse and disparate group of people with conflicting interests. Old Labour died in the late 1980s following the decline in heavy industry. NuLab was based on personality and populism which died when Blair disappeared from our TV screens.

Labour are also badly split on the EU and this will bedevil the party until at least 2030.

Richard1978
16-11-2017, 14:14
We’ve got right-wing political correctness with the Mail accusing people of being ‘traitors’ etc., and left-wing political correctness where even modest criticism of extreme feminism is ‘sexist’ and we are lumped into artificial groupings like LGBT (even though none of these ‘letters’ have anything in common with each other) and BME (as if all ethnic minorities were the same). Genuine liberal reforms are very positive: thanks to New Labour I could have a civil partnership and thanks to David Cameron I’ve been able to marry my long-term partner). But political correctness is illiberal and an attempt to shut down discussion.

I think the attempts to group together minorities is to try & create a united front against the far right.

George 1978
16-11-2017, 14:30
Keith Vaz: don’t you mean Jim the washing machine salesman!

Pardon? Not sure I get that one.

Arran
17-11-2017, 08:30
BME (as if all ethnic minorities were the same).

Have a read of this one:

https://forums.doyouremember.co.uk/threads/19806-Southall-The-birth-of-a-black-community


I think the attempts to group together minorities is to try & create a united front against the far right.

Whilst failing to realise that different minorities have conflicts of interest and don't always get on well with each other.

Silver Bear
14-05-2018, 17:34
I came across this recently because some of the images were used in a BBC4 documentary about Skinheads: the programme itself focussed on the original roots of Skinhead culture in black music, in particular the connections with Ska and Two-Tone. The National Party (not the BNP) programme below from 1976 might be of interest to Arran - and to any Lancashire members of this Forum.

watch-the-national-party-1976-online (https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-national-party-1976-online)

George 1978
17-05-2018, 14:33
I saw on YouTube some old programme about the number of minorities in Ealing, and they interviewed someone who would probably get locked up for his views nowadays. Back then it probably wouldn't have caused so much alarm, but these days one would risk prosecution for using such words. In the previous constituency I live in, there was a National Front candidate that stood in 1979, but since then, it had been void of anyone from the far-right.

Another thing that I don't like, regarding things like that: with regards to the far-right, one thing that bothers me is the phrase "British National" when used to refer to British citizens, and I am rather surprised that BBC News refers to British people overseas like that because I have always associated the phrase "British National" with the BNP, simply because I would associate the word "Conservative" with the Conservative Party, "Green" with the Green Party, and so on - that is the equivalent of those words, apart from the obvious alternatives that is.