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The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

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  • George 1978
    replied
    In Scotland, primary school years were referred to as Primary One, Primary Two, etc - I only found about about that system as a result of the Dunblane massacre happening in 1996.

    Also, reading George Layton's The Balaclava Story, Layton referred as the protagonist to school years or classes as being Standard Three or Standard Four for grammar schools - Layton wrote his book in 1975 although it could have been as early as the late 1960s. I assume that northern grammar schools were referred to like that in the 1960s and 1970s? Anyone shed some light on that?

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  • HG
    replied
    Originally posted by Arran View Post
    There were some primary schools that numbered Y3 to Y6 as 1 to 4 with no references to junior, then used lower infants and upper infants for Y1 and Y2.
    Yes my primary school did that

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  • Arran
    replied
    There were some primary schools that numbered Y3 to Y6 as 1 to 4 with no references to junior, then used lower infants and upper infants for Y1 and Y2.

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  • Arran
    replied
    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    were Primary Schools numbered Years 1 to 6 all along?
    I think consecutive numbers were uncommon, but further information is required. Splitting the school into infants and juniors seemed to be more common.

    Note that the key stages are strongly aligned with the structure and organisation of schools in 1988, except for middle schools. I'm in favour of transferring Y9 to KS4 as many secondary schools now have some GCSE subject options at the start of Y9 whereas previously it took place at the start of Y10.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    As Adrian Mole was 13 3/4, he would have been in the Third Year of Comprehensive School - I know that I was in the Third Year (Year 9) when I was that age, although despite that being the title of Sue Townsend's book, Mole was only that age for the start of the diary which ran in the book from January 1981 to April 1982 where it ended on the day after his 15th birthday. I know that it mentions that he starts the Fourth Year in September 1981. Incidentally, Mole and Townsend both had the same birthday, 2nd April which I believe was no coincidence. Mind you, I did see the Thames ITV series many years before I was given the book as a birthday present.

    Thinking about other school-based programmes, Please Sir! focused on 5C, hence a Fifth Year form, and I assume that the To Sir, With Love also did the same year - Lulu was 18 when the film was made, I assume as she was born in 1948.

    There was also the 1993-1994 Granada CITV series "three, seven, eleven" (usually written in lowercase a la tom thumb or dinnerladies, and was supposed to represent the different ages of starting, transferring and leaving Primary School) which I assume was supposed to be Grange Hill in a Primary School and was on Wednesdays around the same time as the GH Sunday morning repeats on BBC 2. This series was made after the real-life LEA changes to the numbering of school years, but on the other hand, were Primary Schools numbered Years 1 to 6 all along? I went to an Infants and a Juniors where the numbering was separate and that the Infants had a Class 1, Class 2, etc.

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  • Arran
    replied
    Are any references made to year groups in Adrian Mole?

    What about children's dramas - such as those from CBBC and CITV? Press Gang ran from January 1989 to May 1993 and a secondary school was a central feature of the programme.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    I know that in the early 1990s Summer Bay High on Home and Away during the Donald Fisher era referred to Year 12 which I assumed was their (or Australia in general's) Sixth Form, so even Australia adopted it I assume, or perhaps it was even an Australian invention? Do we still refer to the Sixth Form over here? - we very rarely refer to it as Year 12, do we?

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  • Arran
    replied
    Are there any other examples of entertainment where English year groups in schools are mentioned? There is plenty from the US with their year group numbering / naming system.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Originally posted by Arran View Post
    ILEA was a special case of an education authority in the grand scheme of things. They had certain facilities - such as educational video production and a cable TV network - that other LEAs did not have.

    Was Grange Hill modeled around a school run by ILEA, or another specific LEA?
    In around 1986, McClucky often referred to the "LEA", usually in the Staffroom in the post-fire, "lessons in the hall and gym" episodes, referring to what happened to Brookdale after it closed down, and sometimes we got to see the blue entrance sign which said "Northam (?) Education Authority" or "Borough of Northam".

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  • Arran
    replied
    ILEA was a special case of an education authority in the grand scheme of things. They had certain facilities - such as educational video production and a cable TV network - that other LEAs did not have.

    Was Grange Hill modeled around a school run by ILEA, or another specific LEA?

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Originally posted by Arran View Post

    Do you mean ILEA territory? Outer London boroughs (Sutton, Hounslow, Enfield, etc.) functioned as their own LEAs with no central authority.
    I just mean general Local Education Authorities wherever they happen to be.

    I know that the big comprehensive up the road (I think it's an academy these days) had around 1,750 pupils on roll in the early 1990s, and they had tutor groups like 1P1, 1P2, 1H1, 1H2 and so on which I assumed that the school had so many pupils that the forms had to be split into two. I never went to the school myself as a pupil, (however my local MP did, I believe!) - I used to attend a Saturday morning workshop at that place, hence getting an inside view of that school back then.

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  • Arran
    replied
    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    did London LEAs have the letter first followed by the number, hence GH doing that?
    Do you mean ILEA territory? Outer London boroughs (Sutton, Hounslow, Enfield, etc.) functioned as their own LEAs with no central authority.

    A friend started at secondary school in September 1988. His form group was:

    1T1 for Y7. T was an abbreviation for the house name Talisman. There was another house called Vanguard, and two others he can't remember the names of.

    2RS for Y8. RS were the initials of his tutor, as form groups for Y7 and future students were no longer tied to houses, although everybody in 2RS was in Talisman.

    9RS to 11RS for Y9 to Y11. The new year group numbering system had been introduced when he started Y9.

    His younger brother started in September 1990 in form group 7SY. He was also in Talisman house but there were kids from all 4 houses in this form group.
    Last edited by Arran; 17-10-2021, 08:47.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Originally posted by Arran View Post

    Were year groups ever mentioned in Grange Hill around this time?

    I can't be certain but GH must have adapted to it by the mid 1990s but it must have taken longer than their real life counterparts. The 1995 series, perhaps?

    By the way, form groups were known for example as A1 in the series rather than 1A, apart from the first series where it was One Alpha - did London LEAs have the letter first followed by the number, hence GH doing that?

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  • Arran
    replied
    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    although I think it was John Major's government (along with the National Curriculum and the Education Reform Act 1988) which were responsible for the changes.
    The Act introduced the 4 key stages (although they did somewhat exist in schools before then) but I don't think it introduced the year group numbering system used from September 1990.

    There might be some information in old copies of the TES about the legislation introducing a new year group numbering system.

    I was verbally informed by a friend about some confusion with the police that took place in the early months of 1991. His school was independent and still used 1st to 5th form rather than Y7 to Y11. A kid at the school told the police in an interview that he was in 4th form and it was later misinterpreted as being Y4 rather than Y10. Therefore the new year group system must have been used in the LEA and the police force which covered it was already aware of it.

    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    Grange Hill (as the news series always coincided with calendar year, and only the autumn repeat coincided with the start of the academic year), probably didn't follow this trend until the 1992 series, perhaps?
    Were year groups ever mentioned in Grange Hill around this time?

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  • Arran
    replied
    I'm not sure if LEAs adopted a standard system of year group numbering for all their schools prior to September 1990 or devolved the matter to individual schools. After all, students could be 2nd form at a secondary school and 4th year at a middle school in the same LEA.

    I used to take the national year group numbering for granted when I was at school as it was the only system I had experience of. My mother always used it and never referred to Y10 as 4th form or Y4 as 2nd year juniors or Y2 as upper infants, and the like. I'm actually surprised that the national year group numbering was only introduced as recently as 1990. Formal education publications from before that date tend to refer to children by their chronological age rather than any system of year groups.

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