Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

[Arran]

That'd be this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nai_Zindagi_Naya_Jeevan

My sister's and I would just sit and watch it and put on silly Indian accents to the theme tune. The show actually gets a mention in the Serious Drinking song Countdown to Bilko.

Nice find. I wonder if Enoch Powell watched it. He was fluent in Hindi and Urdu.

[KidCurry]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

The use to be an asian programme my parents use to watch called 'New way, New life.'
I think it was on early Sunday mornings.

That'd be this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nai_Zindagi_Naya_Jeevan

My sister's and I would just sit and watch it and put on silly Indian accents to the theme tune. The show actually gets a mention in the Serious Drinking song Countdown to Bilko.

[Moonraker]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

The use to be an asian programme my parents use to watch called 'New way, New life.'
I think it was on early Sunday mornings.

[Clare]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

I remember watching Playschool on BBC 2 in the mornings, and it was followed by Mahabharat.

[Arran]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

I have found one episode of Umbrella - the 1987 Christmas special - on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCHuMBI3U0

Presented by Brian Murray and Maria Warner.

[Arran]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

I know that "researchers" like to save themselves some work, by coming onto forums asking questions. Not really valid research IMO.

There certainly are some people who say that research is not research unless it cites only peer reviewed academic journals and books with ISBN numbers. In the real world not all knowledge has found its way into peer reviewed academic journals and books with ISBN numbers. Sometimes asking around in the right place will reveal much useful information. I wasn't aware of the existence of Umbrella and Under the Same Sun until I came to this forum, so it has been a productive discussion.

[agfagaevart]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

My OP comes as the next item in a long chain of research into the subject of TV programmes designed for people from foreign backgrounds that will eventually be used to produce articles about the television licence, so I’m already clued up about the media bias.

If that's the case, why bother to ask questions on this forum?? You have already made up your mind, and the only bias I can see, is in your direction.

You have completely missed the point. This discussion is not about black and Asian actors in popular entertainment programmes for adults, or presenters of documentaries and news programmes. If you read the OP the question is about programmes either intended to be watched by kids from foreign backgrounds and non-Christian religions or those intended for white British kids to learn about foreign cultures and non-Christian religions. So far Umbrella seems to be the only programme.

No, you have missed the point; You asked about Multi-cultural programming and I mentioned a few shows that I remember. That's all. The ones that I mentioned in my first post, were shown either in the afternoon, or before the watershed. So children could and invariably did watch them when they were transmitted. I also stated that these were just a few of the many thousands of programmes transmitted by the TV channels during the 1970s and 1980s, and I mentioned the dramas as a way of indicating what else was on television years ago, which children could have watched. If you really are so "clued up" (which I doubt) you would know that. I also mentioned Under the Same Sun, a children series that was truly international. It was not aimed at "White British" but children who wanted to see how their peers lived in other parts of the world - The Middle East, Europe, South America, Africa, etc. No doubt there were other shows like it. I would have to refer to my many back issues of TV and Radio Times in order to jog my memory, but its really really not worth it.

ITV companies back in the 1970s and 80s had many timeslots to themselves where they often showed programmes aimed at the interests of the people who live in their franchise areas – such as local current affairs programmes or coverage of prominent local events – that were not networked into other ITV regions. TSW and Grampian were particularly renowned for this because they didn’t have the muscle to get their programmes onto prime time. Thames rarely (if ever) used these timeslots to show programmes for people of foreign origin who lived in and around London.

That is just not the case regarding Thames. In fact, during the mid '80s and the mid '90s they would show "community" programmes that were often quite short (5 -10 minutes in length) after bulletins like Thames News. These concerned the issues affecting the Greek, Jewish, Italian, and even "White British" (as you would say) communities. I recall seeing them! One which springs to mind was called Help if my memory serves, it was presented by Joan Shenton. There would be a telephone number shown at the end which viewers could use for more information. Do you still reckon you are clued up??? I would like to know how you did your research (if you did any at all). I know that "researchers" like to save themselves some work, by coming onto forums asking questions. Not really valid research IMO.

The official reason why Thames lost to Carlton is that they were outbid in the franchise auction. Considering that the ITC have never made public their values for each ITV reason add fuel to the theory that the bidding was only there to muddy the water and the ITC decided that Thames, TVS, and TSW must go for some other reasons they would prefer to keep quiet about. TV-AM could well have been an unfortunate victim of the bidding process.

If you say so.
I will not reply again...

[Arran]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

i really cannot see how your "theory" about a media bias can be reinforced, when many of the shows that I mentioned didn't last more than one or even two series, and on the main got low viewing figures, apart from Desmonds and The Fosters. In fact, many of the other shows made in the 1970s and '80s cannot be transmitted on television now, because they contain offensive stereotypes. And even when popular shows such as Minder are repeated, they have to be edited. You do not have to believe me, just grab an old copy of The Radio and TV Times, and you will see proof that programmes made for ethnic groups were pretty scarce on British television - then and even now sadly. And who says that these programmes were made under the assumption that all Muslims are Asian?? I certainly did not. Credo was a religious (not Christian) programme shown at primetime on a Sunday evening. Eastern Eye concentrated on issues affecting the Indian Asian community, this included health problems such as diabetes which predominates in their community. Even so, I don't think that it was aimed at any particular race of people, as I used to watch it sometimes, and I am not Asian.

My OP comes as the next item in a long chain of research into the subject of TV programmes designed for people from foreign backgrounds that will eventually be used to produce articles about the television licence, so I’m already clued up about the media bias.


I’m also aware that many of the interests of certain foreign and religious communities does not correlate with what white British small ‘l’ liberals and the race relations community have in mind when it comes to ‘multicultural’ TV programmes.

Provide some evidence of this, because as far as I recall, the only black person to regularly appear on Thames TV years ago was Trevor MacDonald - And he still does appear on ITV sometimes today in fact. There was one other black TV News reporter called Mark Wadsworth on Thames News during the Andrew Gardner days of the late '70s and early '80s, but he was rarely seen. The only other black newsreader was Moira Stewart on the BBC. If anyone reading this recalls the names of any Asian newsreaders and TV presenters on television back then please enlighten me as to their names. Were there any Blacks or Asians even running Thames TV back then?? I don't think so. This is hardly what I would call bias.

You have completely missed the point. This discussion is not about black and Asian actors in popular entertainment programmes for adults, or presenters of documentaries and news programmes. If you read the OP the question is about programmes either intended to be watched by kids from foreign backgrounds and non-Christian religions or those intended for white British kids to learn about foreign cultures and non-Christian religions. So far Umbrella seems to be the only programme.

Thames and many of the ITV companies of the past, were commercial entities and had to produce output which would bring in many viewers and keep their advertisers happy. Therefore, they catered to the majority white audiences that watched the channel. It was as simple as that. Thames upset the Tory Government - so did Channel Four to some extent, and in their eyes they needed to be controlled and punished. So television was deregulated, ownership of TV channels was put out to tender and alas Thames lost out (so did we alas). The knock-on effect of this, which Margaret Thatcher had not foreseen was that TVAM also lost its franchise, and Thatcher even wrote a personal letter of apology to its MD, the late Bruce Gingell, afterwards. Therefore, no conspiracy.

ITV companies back in the 1970s and 80s had many timeslots to themselves where they often showed programmes aimed at the interests of the people who live in their franchise areas – such as local current affairs programmes or coverage of prominent local events – that were not networked into other ITV regions. TSW and Grampian were particularly renowned for this because they didn’t have the muscle to get their programmes onto prime time. Thames rarely (if ever) used these timeslots to show programmes for people of foreign origin who lived in and around London.



The official reason why Thames lost to Carlton is that they were outbid in the franchise auction. Considering that the ITC have never made public their values for each ITV reason add fuel to the theory that the bidding was only there to muddy the water and the ITC decided that Thames, TVS, and TSW must go for some other reasons they would prefer to keep quiet about. TV-AM could well have been an unfortunate victim of the bidding process.

[Richard1978]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

I'm trying to remember the programme which had a feature where an ethnic girl would read a letter or diary entry with some still pictures. She had a white uncle Jonathan, quite radical for the mid 1980s. I've got the feeling it was Lay On Five, but it might have been a schools programme.

[darren]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

OH HERE IT IS COSMO AND DIBS NOT THOUGHT OF THIS IN A VERY LONG TIME.
BUT I DID LIKE IT.

https://youtu.be/exkUcdhohJU

You and me with Cosmo and dibs used to look at culture a bit I think I remember but it was usually just videos of something like a British family celebrating ramedan or Jewish festivals.

[agfagaevart]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

There definitely was much more diverse homegrown programming shown in the past, and more content from abroad, even for children; The Red Hand Gang from the US springs to mind, and the series Under The Same Sun featured real children talking about their lives in countries around the world: South America, the Middle East, etc. TV has taken a real backward step, and concentrates too much on cheapo "reality" TV and talentless "stars" like the Kardishians.

[Markxist]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

There seemed to be a lot more multicultural drama back in the day; Empire Road, The Fosters, Gangsters, The Chinese Detective, Wolcott, King of the Ghetto...

[agfagaevart]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

Was there anything for kids?

The aforementioned programmes reinforce my theory that in the 1970s and 80s the media had a mindset that you were either black or white, and multicultural / ethnic programming was biased towards blacks over other races and identifiable ethnic groups. Were there programmes aimed specifically at non-Christian religious audiences or was religion intermixed and conflated with culture? An example of this are pan-Asian programmes that assumes all Muslims are Asians and ignores those who aren't that usually have no interest or understanding of Sikh and Hindu religious and cultural practices.

i really cannot see how your "theory" about a media bias can be reinforced, when many of the shows that I mentioned didn't last more than one or even two series, and on the main got low viewing figures, apart from Desmonds and The Fosters. In fact, many of the other shows made in the 1970s and '80s cannot be transmitted on television now, because they contain offensive stereotypes. And even when popular shows such as Minder are repeated, they have to be edited. You do not have to believe me, just grab an old copy of The Radio and TV Times, and you will see proof that programmes made for ethnic groups were pretty scarce on British television - then and even now sadly. And who says that these programmes were made under the assumption that all Muslims are Asian?? I certainly did not. Credo was a religious (not Christian) programme shown at primetime on a Sunday evening. Eastern Eye concentrated on issues affecting the Indian Asian community, this included health problems such as diabetes which predominates in their community. Even so, I don't think that it was aimed at any particular race of people, as I used to watch it sometimes, and I am not Asian.

Something that seems to have been overlooked by media analysts is that Thames Television was notable for having a large and increasing proportion of people of foreign origin within its territory, but it was an audience that they largely ignored.

Provide some evidence of this, because as far as I recall, the only black person to regularly appear on Thames TV years ago was Trevor MacDonald - And he still does appear on ITV sometimes today in fact. There was one other black TV News reporter called Mark Wadsworth on Thames News during the Andrew Gardner days of the late '70s and early '80s, but he was rarely seen. The only other black newsreader was Moira Stewart on the BBC. If anyone reading this recalls the names of any Asian newsreaders and TV presenters on television back then please enlighten me as to their names. Were there any Blacks or Asians even running Thames TV back then?? I don't think so. This is hardly what I would call bias.

They preferred to take advantage of their size and influence by producing popular prime time programmes for a white British audience rather than specialist niche programmes for viewers in their own local territory. There is a conspiracy theory that Thames Television was dismissed by the ITC as a punishment for showing the highly controversial documentary Death on the Rock but I can't help wondering if the way they ignored viewers of foreign origin also brought about their demise.

Thames and many of the ITV companies of the past, were commercial entities and had to produce output which would bring in many viewers and keep their advertisers happy. Therefore, they catered to the majority white audiences that watched the channel. It was as simple as that. Thames upset the Tory Government - so did Channel Four to some extent, and in their eyes they needed to be controlled and punished. So television was deregulated, ownership of TV channels was put out to tender and alas Thames lost out (so did we alas). The knock-on effect of this, which Margaret Thatcher had not foreseen was that TVAM also lost its franchise, and Thatcher even wrote a personal letter of apology to its MD, the late Bruce Gingell, afterwards. Therefore, no conspiracy.

[Richard1978]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

Yes. Very odd considering it was shown once a week at a reasonably popular timeslot over a period of 3 ½ years. Could it be the biggest (in terms of numbers of episodes) omission from TV Cream for the 1980s?

The episodes are 15 minutes long and appear to feature two stories. I am wondering if the BBC still has Umbrella in its archive or have they wiped it like they tend to do with all manner of niche and popular programmes they don't plan on showing again?

Maybe it's worth emailing them about it being left out, I've noticed the odd other programme seemed to slip the net.

It's a bit recent so the chances of surviving are better, but a fair bit of older educational programming was wiped in the 1990s.

[Arran]

Re: Early 'multicultural' TV programmes

Yes. Very odd considering it was shown once a week at a reasonably popular timeslot over a period of 3 ½ years. Could it be the biggest (in terms of numbers of episodes) omission from TV Cream for the 1980s?

The episodes are 15 minutes long and appear to feature two stories. I am wondering if the BBC still has Umbrella in its archive or have they wiped it like they tend to do with all manner of niche and popular programmes they don't plan on showing again?