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The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

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  • The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

    This is probably going to be a bit of a morbid thread given its possible content.

    I was talking to a friend recently and the topic eventually steered onto Fred West, of whom I remember very well seeing as he and his wife were some of the most prolific murderers the UK had ever seen and were on TV for a lot of the time. I think at the time I thought it was a scary thing but my growing mind couldn't really fathom just what atrocities were committed. Thinking about it now actually scares me a little bit, it is understandable what a storm this cause when it eventually all came out.

    Ben Needham was a local boy who was snatched whilst on holiday. The weirdest thing I remember about this is my parents and family constantly checking on me when we went on holiday that year, saying they didn't want the same happening to me. The craziest thing is they never resolved the kidnapping, every big anniversary they are on the local news saying that they still looking for Ben. It's really sad.

    The murder of James Bulger also alienated me as a child. I am a few months younger than Robert Thompson and Jon Venables but even knowing what they did didn't really come across as what I would want to do. I am sure all of us have struck or beat up a younger sibling or whatever during our lives, but to actually plan on killing is just something that wouldn't compute in most peoples minds. Again the media attention was really high on this one, I seemed to remember it was plastered all over everything. It is understandable really give the magnitude of these two kids actions.

    Nick Leeson, although not a murderer managed to sink a whole bank single handedly through fraudulently methods. Again, I didn't really understand how much of a big deal this was, it's only looking back on the events now with an adult mind that I can unravel what the hell was going on.

    When I was a mid teen the Harold Shipman case blew up. I seem to remember that it was found that he'd done away with a few people, but as they researched it the possible numbers rose to an astronomical figure. The more they dug through files the more they'd realised what damage this man had caused. Whenever they showed footage of him talking in interviews he looked like such a calm and relaxed man at ease with what he had managed to accomplish. It's absolutely crazy that he did what he did, you totally wouldn't expect it from a man like him. The scariest thing is that earlier in my life I'd actually been treated by Dr Shipman on the sidelines of a rugby match after I received a back injury whilst playing. I don't actually remember it myself but all my coaches and trainers were certain that it was he who patched me up so I could go home.

    Other big crimes that managed to slip out of the jurisdictional of this forum are The Great Heck Rail Crash, The Soham Murders, the disappearance of Madeline McCann and many others. Too many to mention really.

    There are plenty beforehand though, although I can't really comment on them because I wasn't either born or I was too young to remember. I expect certain specific crimes to show up though, some of them are just too big to forget.

    Of course this just isn't for British crimes. Any crime is welcome to be discussed.

  • #2
    Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

    When James Bulger was murdered my children were quite young and at the time this happened I wanted some reins for my daughter as she often tried to run off...........I went to every baby shop in the town but everyone had sold out..........I was told by an assistant in Mothercare that because of the J B murder there was a waiting list for baby reins .......it was impossible to get hold of any, anywhere in the country.

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    • #3
      Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

      That is absolutely crazy. I remember at the time kids being on those retractable dog leads too. It never clicked at the time, but that's what it must have been.

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      • #4
        Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

        I think the biggest case of the 70's/80's has to be the Yorkshire Ripper. It's amazing how many times the police came so close to catching him!
        Heaven knows I'm miserable now.

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        • #5
          Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

          I was sort of expecting the Yorkshire Ripper to be the first case mentioned. It's a little bit before my time, but it's so well documented that it's hard to avoid really whenever you start talking about wrong 'uns.

          Of course, the whole Yorkshire Ripper thing brings up the whole Wearside Jack fiasco, another major crime in itself. Again, I wasn't even born when this happened, but I'm fully aware of what the situation was. It's quite scary someone would want to do something like that when you had these terrible acts trying to be closed in on by the police. The guy supposedly responsible for the hoax ended up in prison in the mid 00'd over it once they caught up with him.

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          • #6
            Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

            Peter Sutcliffe worked as a truck driver for a trucking company and, interestingly, was pictured in one of the company's advertising brochures.

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            • #7
              Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

              When I was young myself I remember that missing children always seemed to be in the news, usually with film of a bike lying on a verge somewhere. I've no doubt just as many children go missing now but not so many make the national news, apart from the big stories such as Madeline McCann. It seems strange that parents are apparently more wary now of children being taken from the streets than they were then.
              1976 Vintage

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              • #8
                Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                There was Dr John Bodkin Adams who lived in my home town who murdered several women after becoming a beneficiary on their wills
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bodkin_Adams

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                • #9
                  Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                  Originally posted by Trickyvee View Post
                  When I was young myself I remember that missing children always seemed to be in the news, usually with film of a bike lying on a verge somewhere. I've no doubt just as many children go missing now but not so many make the national news, apart from the big stories such as Madeline McCann. It seems strange that parents are apparently more wary now of children being taken from the streets than they were then.


                  When it comes to pure evil and another child's bike lying on a grass verge case, you can't get worse than this from 1994. I should point out that such cases are very, very rare, although the mass media go overboard on them and make it seem like these things are happening all over the country all of the time, when they're not. In truth, your child has got more chance of winning the jackpot on the national lottery than something like this happening to them:
                   

                  On October 7th, 1994, nine years old Daniel Handley was fixing a chain on his bicycle in Beckton, east London, when he was approached by two homosexual partners, Timothy Morss, 33 and Brett Tyler, 30, in a Peugeot 405 car. They had been cruising the area looking for a young, pre-teen, fair haired boy to make real their fantasy of abducting such a boy; sexually abusing him and then killing him. Morss, the driver of the car, claimed to be lost and asked Daniel to show them directions on a map. The map was placed across the back seat of the car and, when Daniel leaned inside to look at it, Tyler pushed him into the car and Morss drove them off. They drove Daniel to a flat, where Daniel was ordered to strip and then each man sexually abused him in turn while the other videoed the activity with a camcorder. Afterwards, they put Daniel back in the car and drove off with him. Daniel asked them if they were taking him home and he was told that they were. Daniel also asked them if they were going to kill him, but they told him they weren’t. They took Daniel to a layby near Hungerford in Berkshire, where he was again sexually abused before being strangled to death with a rope. According to Tyler, Morss told him they had to kill him, although Tyler didn’t want to. "We’ve got to!", Morss told him and then each pulled on one end of the rope that was wrapped around Daniel’s neck. "I kept telling Daniel I was sorry until he was dead", said Tyler. "But he didn’t look as though he was dead…just asleep."


                  His killers dumped his body in a shallow grave near Bristol. Morss told Tyler that he felt dissatisfied with the short time he had spent having sex with Daniel, that he felt it was a waste and that he wanted another boy. In March, 1995 - five months after he was last seen alive, Daniels remains were discovered.


                  On May 17, 1996, Timothy Morss and Brett Tyler were convicted of murdering Daniel Handley. The trial judge at the Old Bailey branded them as "vultures" and sentenced them to life imprisonment with a recommendation that they should never be released. Six years later, the pair were given a 50-year minimum term by the Home Secretary David Blunkett.


                  After the trial, it was revealed that Daniel's killers had met in Wormwood Scrubs Prison during the early 1990’s, while they were serving prison sentences for child sex offences. Morss already owned a house near Bristol, a minicab firm and a florist’s shop, assets which had been obtained with his former homosexual partner.


                  They fled to the Philippines after Daniel's death, but by the time they returned to Britain, Daniel's body had been found, and they were quickly arrested on suspicion of murder.


                  Tyler later recalled "the feeling of sexual excitement when I grabbed his body and pushed him into the car, the fear of being caught and the excitement that we might get away with it. It was like a fantasy."



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                  • #10
                    Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                    Although Dennis Nelson was brought up in our neck of the woods He committed his crimes down in London
                    and only got caught when complaint's were put forward about the stench coming from his drain..... body parts were found to be blocking it

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Nilsen

                    Sicko
                    DON'T TELL HIM YOUR NAME PIKE!!

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                    • #11
                      Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                      Originally posted by culnara View Post
                      Although Dennis Nelson was brought up in our neck of the woods He committed his crimes down in London
                      and only got caught when complaint's were put forward about the stench coming from his drain..... body parts were found to be blocking it

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Nilsen

                      Sicko
                      Its 30 years since he was arrested, Killing for company by Brain Masters about Nilsen is a good read. Nilsen was evil. Killing For Company would make a good film about Nilsens life

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                      • #12
                        Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                        I remember this being on the news everywhere.....at one point I actually thought they were looking for a man that turned into a black panther....really scared me......adults use to whisper a name in hushed tones.....
                        The name...
                        Lesley Whittle.

                        DONALD NEILSON: THE BLACK PANTHER


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                        Neilson’s hardened criminal behaviour became more entrenched with each robbery and, on 15 February 1974, during a raid on a Harrogate sub-post office, he shot dead the postmaster, Donald Skepper. Having kept a low profile following the first murder, and the ensuing police hunt, he took another life seven months later, when postmaster Derek Astin was shot dead in Lancashire during the course of another raid. The police quickly came to the conclusion that they were looking for the same killer in both cases.


                        Just 9 weeks later, a third postmaster, Sidney Grayland, was shot dead during the commission of a robbery in the West Midlands. Forensic evidence at the scene linked this death to the first two. Despite the three deaths the media showed little interest in the attacks, and Neilson was dissatisfied with the lack of attention, as well as the relatively slim pickings to be had from the post office raids.


                        Still searching for that elusive big payout, Neilson settled on kidnapping as his best route to success, choosing Lesley Whittle, a 17-year-old heiress to a transport fortune. He gathered as much information about her as he could, and made comprehensive plans for her incarceration, as well as the delivery of the ransom that he planned to demand for her return.


                        On 14 January 1975, Neilson broke into the Whittle family’s Shropshire estate, and abducted Lesley from her bedroom without incident, leaving a ransom note that demanded 50,000. In it, he gave detailed instructions for its delivery by Lesley’s brother, Ronald, and included a warning not to involve the police. Lesley Whittle was held in a drainage shaft beneath Bathpool Park, in Staffordshire.


                        The Whittle family chose not to heed the ransom warning, and informed both the local police and Scotland Yard of the abduction. Poor communication between the different police factions led to a media leak, which convinced police that the kidnapper had been scared off by the media attention. This wasn’t the case, however, and when Neilson called the designated phone box in accordance with his ransom instructions, Ronald Whittle was not there to take his call.


                        Two further ransom delivery attempts were bungled over the next 72 hours, as a result of both poor police coordination and bad luck, but at least police were sure that Lesley was still alive at this time, as it was her voice that recorded the details for the second failed ransom drop, in Bathpool Park itself. On the tape she seemed calm and collected, given the circumstances. It is claimed that Neilson spotted a police vehicle in the area at the time of the second drop, and decided not to risk a police trap, aborting the ransom drop. Unbeknownst to the police, the second failed attempt ended just yards from the drainage shaft where Lesley was imprisoned, but no search of the immediate area was carried out at the time. Furious that his instructions had not been followed, Neilson waited nearby for Ronald Whittle and the police to leave, before entering the drainage shaft and killing Lesley Whittle in a rage. Had police conducted a thorough search before leaving, there was every chance they might have discovered Lesley alive.


                        On the same night as the last aborted drop, Neilson was also involved in a freight train terminal robbery, in which a security guard, Gerald Smith, was fatally injured. Forensic evidence again linked the crime to the “Black Panther” post-office heists, but no connection was made to the Whittle kidnap at that time. It took police more than a week to discover Neilson’s stolen getaway vehicle, which he had abandoned close to the terminal, in which tapes of Lesley Whittle’s voice, and ransom drop instructions, were found.


                        Finally making the connection between the “Black Panther” and Lesley Whittle, and given that 10 days had passed without word from her kidnapper, a proper search of Bathpool Park was instigated, and the news blackout, that had proved so ineffective, was lifted. A televised interview with Ronald Whittle, and public assistance, led to the discovery of Lesley Whittle’s body nearly two months later, on 7 March 1975. She was discovered hanging naked from a rope tied to the end of a metal hawser in the drainage shaft, and post mortem evidence revealed that she had been killed within days of her kidnapping.
                        http://www.crimeandinvestigation.co....her/crime.html
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Romany Jones.; 13-08-2013, 02:27. Reason: Link.

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                        • #13
                          Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                          Continued....

                          THE BLACK PANTHER.


                          The murder of Lesley Whittle occurred in January 1975 and dominated national headlines for 11 months. The investigation of her kidnap and murder involved over 400 officers from Shropshire, Staffordshire and West Midlands police force and the Metropolitan Police.
                          Whittle, aged 17, was kidnapped from her home in Highley, Shropshire, by Donald Neilson, who by that time had committed over 400 burglaries and three fatal shootings. He was known to the British press as the Black Panther, due to his wearing a black balaclava during his Post Office raids.
                          Neilson held Lesley Whittle in a drainage shaft of a reservoir at Bathpool Park in Kidsgrove, Staffordshire. He had placed a hood over her head, left her naked, and tethered her to the side of the shaft by a wire noose. After what was later seen as a bungled police operation, including two failed attempts to engage with Neilson's demand for a ransom of 50,000, her body was found hanging in the shaft on 7 March 1975.
                          After arrest 11 months later in Mansfield, in July 1976 at Oxford Crown Court, Neilson was convicted of the kidnapping and murder of Lesley Whittle, for which he was sentenced to life imprisonment. Three weeks later he was convicted of the murder of three post office workers, and given three further life sentences.
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Whittle

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                            The Moores murderers

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                            • #15
                              Re: The Pasts Most Serious Crimes

                              I'm not sure if this would count as the details have only come out recently. I'm referring to the late Jimmy Savile's long history of sexual abuse going back several decades. I saw a documentary about the once beloved television personality and it amazed me that there were actually several missed opportunities to bring Savile to justice when he was still alive.

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