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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by Zincubus View Post
    I may be incorrect here but I always thought he was jailed because he shot the guy in the back when he was running away ... so not self defence

    If he’d have shot the guy when he was coming towards him I presume he’d have been fine ( self defence )
    I think that Tony Martin was frustrated at the lack of support from the police, hence taking the law into his own hands. It just shows you how society has become as a result of that - if he had a lot more support a lot earlier on, both in a home security and also a legal perspective, it probably wouldn't have come to that. For some reason I was always on his side and not the burglar's.

    A few years ago, one of the newspapers, probably the Grauniad (the online version at least) did a list of people who had used lethal weapons on robbers and burglars and ended up in the courts - a pattern emerged where the person wasn't prosecuted when the shotgun or knife wound was inflicted in the front, whilst they were prosecuted when it was inflicted in the back.

    I am so glad that where I live now, I have security by virtue of a communal door (although it is sometimes ajar because the last person didn't shut it properly - I always do), and living on the second floor - it is a piece of mind.

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  • Zincubus
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    As the person is a stranger that obviously one does not know on one's property, it depends on whether they are armed or not, so to be on the safe side, I would say that it takes guts to do so - agree to disagree if necessary, Zincubus. I also believe that it does take stamina and courage to be in such an incident - the April 2008 burglary was the closest that I have experienced to something like that. All incidents are different even if the same crime is being committed. The fact of the matter is that I didn't invite the burglar in for a cup of tea and a McVitie's digestive - he (or she) was trespassing on private property and they were not invited in and play bailiff to take the family silver and the colour TV set. As a homeowner, one also has to play security guard to keep one's property intact.

    There is the "self-defence" angle and there is the "frustration" angle - Tony Martin represented the latter of the two mostly as he had been burgled over 30 times and he was at the end of his tether - I can understand how bitter and angry he was, and my sympathies were with him as because I also live on my own due to one thing and another, and I can understand the fact that when you are on your own, shouting out is useless. When Tony Martin was jailed in April 2000 for killing the burglar with a shotgun, it made me think at the time that if the victim had been a woman, and the person had been repeatedly raped rather than burgled, and the woman had also shot the intruder who raped her dead, I am almost certain that it would be treated differently because: A) the woman would be seen as a victim; B) the woman wouldn't have gone to prison; and: C) the woman would have been granted anonymity from the media. Almost like different planets between the way they are both treated.

    I hope that I do not ever get into a situation where a violent armed burglary or robbery happens - for some reason, I might not live to tell the tale if it did happen.
    I may be incorrect here but I always thought he was jailed because he shot the guy in the back when he was running away ... so not self defence

    If he’d have shot the guy when he was coming towards him I presume he’d have been fine ( self defence )


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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    By the way, if my previous posting was a bit "strong", I would like to add that I feel very strongly about thieves and trespassers going onto one's own property, and I thought that it was a perfect opportunity to vent my spleen in the process. I have had a hard day with various things going wrong, hence my assertiveness. I shall move on after this.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by Zincubus View Post
    I don’t really agree

    I think everyone would find the will power to stand in the way of a stranger trying to get upstairs where the family are .

    I’d be useless with my fists but stood on the stairs with a bread knife in my good hand and the two foot piece of 2” x 2” in my left hand I’m pretty sure that nobody is getting past me .

    Just got to hope they haven’t got a shot gun
    As the person is a stranger that obviously one does not know on one's property, it depends on whether they are armed or not, so to be on the safe side, I would say that it takes guts to do so - agree to disagree if necessary, Zincubus. I also believe that it does take stamina and courage to be in such an incident - the April 2008 burglary was the closest that I have experienced to something like that. All incidents are different even if the same crime is being committed. The fact of the matter is that I didn't invite the burglar in for a cup of tea and a McVitie's digestive - he (or she) was trespassing on private property and they were not invited in and play bailiff to take the family silver and the colour TV set. As a homeowner, one also has to play security guard to keep one's property intact.

    There is the "self-defence" angle and there is the "frustration" angle - Tony Martin represented the latter of the two mostly as he had been burgled over 30 times and he was at the end of his tether - I can understand how bitter and angry he was, and my sympathies were with him as because I also live on my own due to one thing and another, and I can understand the fact that when you are on your own, shouting out is useless. When Tony Martin was jailed in April 2000 for killing the burglar with a shotgun, it made me think at the time that if the victim had been a woman, and the person had been repeatedly raped rather than burgled, and the woman had also shot the intruder who raped her dead, I am almost certain that it would be treated differently because: A) the woman would be seen as a victim; B) the woman wouldn't have gone to prison; and: C) the woman would have been granted anonymity from the media. Almost like different planets between the way they are both treated.

    I hope that I do not ever get into a situation where a violent armed burglary or robbery happens - for some reason, I might not live to tell the tale if it did happen.

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  • tex
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by Zincubus View Post
    I don’t really agree

    I think everyone would find the will power to stand in the way of a stranger trying to get upstairs where the family are .

    I’d be useless with my fists but stood on the stairs with a bread knife in my good hand and the two foot piece of 2” x 2” in my left hand I’m pretty sure that nobody is getting past me .

    Just got to hope they haven’t got a shot gun


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I think anger and adrenaline take over in such situations, as an ex supermarket manager i was often put in harms way but shoplifters would never get past me

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  • Zincubus
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    I think you are - it takes guts.

    It reminded me of when my family was experiencing anti-social behaviour from youngsters in the mid 1990s - stones thrown at windows, etc. My parents owned a shotgun (not sure if it was loaded, but we got rid of it eventually). My late father was so close to the end of his tether that he was so close to going after them and using it. I wouldn't have done that in fear of being dragged through the legal system.
    I don’t really agree

    I think everyone would find the will power to stand in the way of a stranger trying to get upstairs where the family are .

    I’d be useless with my fists but stood on the stairs with a bread knife in my good hand and the two foot piece of 2” x 2” in my left hand I’m pretty sure that nobody is getting past me .

    Just got to hope they haven’t got a shot gun


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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by tex View Post
    I guess, i mean i don't know how crimes are prioritised but i suspect hounding motorists comes high on the list
    I believe that crimes are crimes and therefore should be a priority whatever happens.

    Mind you, back in 2005 I was in Blackpool and someone had accosted me in the street and stole money from me in the street - making me withdraw money and all that. When I escaped from that person, I reported it to a local police station, and I suppose that in the confusion I was flustered and didn't quite get my words out when I was reporting it to the woman on the desk. When I told her, the woman (who I think was a civilian) said that no crime had been committed and was given the number of the local Trading Standards, which is as far as I am concerned, like being told to go to the Health and Safety Executive if you have been stabbed or shot.

    I reported to it the main police station in Nottingham after having an hour long telephone conversation with my sister after I got back home again - we both went to the police station, and one of the senior uniform officers, perhaps a sergeant. said "that's robbery", which I thought was only a crime when a lethal weapon such as a gun or a knife was used. At least, I helped get a witness statement prepared with my sister - whether the person was caught, I don't know as I had never heard of it since, probably for the best as I wanted to put it all being myself.

    Being vulnerable makes a person a victim even when they are not one.

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  • amethyst
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by tex View Post
    I guess, i mean i don't know how crimes are prioritised but i suspect hounding motorists comes high on the list
    They log the complaint then nothing more us done

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  • tex
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    That is not the point - the fact of the matter was that someone attempted to go onto your property with intent to steal.
    I guess, i mean i don't know how crimes are prioritised but i suspect hounding motorists comes high on the list

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by tex View Post
    They didn't even attend because nothing was taken and nobody hurt, they simply gave me a crime reference number which left us feeling very vulnerable at 2.30 am and no locks on the door
    That is not the point - the fact of the matter was that someone attempted to go onto your property with intent to steal.

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  • George 1978
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by Zincubus View Post
    I very much doubt it ... !!
    I think you are - it takes guts.

    It reminded me of when my family was experiencing anti-social behaviour from youngsters in the mid 1990s - stones thrown at windows, etc. My parents owned a shotgun (not sure if it was loaded, but we got rid of it eventually). My late father was so close to the end of his tether that he was so close to going after them and using it. I wouldn't have done that in fear of being dragged through the legal system.

    Leave a comment:


  • tex
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by amethyst View Post
    What did the police say
    They didn't even attend because nothing was taken and nobody hurt, they simply gave me a crime reference number which left us feeling very vulnerable at 2.30 am and no locks on the door

    Leave a comment:


  • Zincubus
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
    You are lot more braver than I am.
    I very much doubt it ... !!


    I just don’t intend to face anyone barehanded given they’re likely to be wielding a knife of some sort .

    I wouldn’t chase them away - they’re just not getting passed me on the stairs ( family upstairs of course ) .

    Just basic self preservation .

    I’d have a gun if I could !!


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  • amethyst
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Sorry to hear about these burglaries attempted ones,what do they get if caught slap on wrist country is a joke

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  • Mulletino
    replied
    Re: Attempted burglary

    Sorry to hear that mate. We got burgled over 7 years ago, not long after we'd moved into our new house, the feckers kicked in the back garage door then couldn't get into the house via that so they crowbarred the front door.
    We were both out at the movies and came home to find the door wide open, luckily our two house cats hadn't run out (they were both terrified, one of them still runs off when he hears loud noises now) and they hadn't killed the Mummy cat with five new kittens were were fostering at the time. You hear horror stories about heartless *******s who do worse.

    They'd taken all our jewellery, that was all, but it was mostly stuff handed down from our familes so more sentimental value that anything else. I just hope they spent the money they got for it on an overdose and died a horrible painful death.
    I'm still angry about it now, i still also check the local Cashies in case any of the items show up.

    I still have a samurai sword under our bed and tonfa's in a couple of rooms in case of a repeat, although now we have cameras and an alarm. We later found out the place had been burgled a few months before we bought it, would have been nice had the sellers actually told us, as then i would have replaced the fly screens with crim-safe sooner, instead of after the event.

    Where my parents live in the Uk the local council had the bright idea of turning off the streetlights at night (around 11pm i think) to save money. They'd also cut the Police force drastically. Funnily enough ,they've lived there for over 40 years with no trouble, then all of a sudden got burgled, also taking their jewellery, about a year after we got done. Although the council seem to think the rise in crime is not related to the other two events....... absolutely farcical!

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