Sample City!!

[armchair_scouse]

Sampling records for other tunes has been going on for years, though these days record companies are more aware of this (and so are their copyright lawyers, so Jive Bunny discovered).

Perhaps you like a particular song because it samples a song that you like? Or perhaps you hate a song because the sampled song is good, but the new song is rubbish?

As my first attempt in these forums to start a chain, can you name songs that contain samples and also the sampled song? For example:

Eye Know - De La Soul / Dock of The Bay - Otis Redding
Say No Go - De La Soul / I Can't Go For That - Hall and Oates
Ice Ice Baby - Vanilla Ice / Under Pressure - Queen & David Bowie

[SG1973]

Hung Up - Madonna / Gimme Gimme Gimme - Abba

[armchair_scouse]

I remembered another, but I don't know who sang the sample... there was a news story about it too, because the band was threatened with legal action.

The Sun Rising - The Beloved / O Euchadi - ???

[CARROLLKRC]

Jamelia -Beware of the dog (DepecheMode -Personal Jesus)

[Aidan]

Isn't sampling legal ? if not, what about cover versions ? Here's hoping Louis Walsh gets cleaned out !!

[CARROLLKRC]

Freak like me - Suger babes (gary numan - are friends electric)

[armchair_scouse]

Sampling is legal as long as you either a) have permission or b) pay royalties or a fixed fee.

Paul Hardcastle paid an American news organisation, it might have been ABC News, a fee for the sample of a news broadcast covering Vietnam. He used it successfully in his hit '19'. However, Jive Bunny lost most or all of the profits gained because the samples were used without permission.

[armchair_scouse]

Hmm, this turned out to be a topical thread after all.

There was a news story midweek about the law possibly changing in the UK to allow sampling without permission provided that the new song wasn't just a gratuitous rip-off, but instead 'creates something new', 'breaks new ground in composing', or some **** like that.

Unfortunately the legal people here are worried because the same law is in force in the States, and there is no legal definition to describe how and if a sample used in the song has created something new. They expect that the same legal mess they have in the States will be here in the UK if this law is passed.

Still, it is good news if you like sampling music!!

[armchair_scouse]

Oh, and before I forget...

No Diggity - Blackstreet / Grandma's Chair - Bill Withers

[sixtyten]

Bump!
I think you'll find Paul Hardcastle didn't get permission to sample from ABC and was sued by them and hardly made any money from 19.
Probably one of the first cases to go thorough the courts too..
I sample,but no-one will ever hear it on a radio so I get away with it.
I remember Mick Jones from BAD saying the snippet of America from West side Story he sampled gets 50% of song royalties for that track!
Costly business! and I have to say,I have no respect for ABBA anymore after giving Madonna permission to sample them..;(

[lionelvy]

De La Soul's "3 Feet High and Rising" debut album is one of the definitive albums with regard to copyright law and sample clearance. Can't find the link at the moment, but there's a great page that lists every sample on the album.

Sample usage and use of copyright material has been an ongoing debate for years now, and the "new" uk law doesn't look likely to change much. For a while you could get away with using a sample without paying a penny provided it was only of a certain length, or didn't represent the "essence" of the music (the guitar riff from the James Bond theme for example).

Recent music history is littered with copyright clearance issues that meant a lot of people had hits without seeing a penny. The Verve's "Bitter Sweet Symphony" for example.

However, if you recreate that sample, rather than lift it directly, then you're sorted, as then it becomes a cover version, which is something else entirely. That was nearly the case with Madonna's "Hung Up", as ABBA notoriously never give clearance for samples. Although I guess if its for Madonna you make exceptions!

My personal fave sample-based tune remains Sugarhill Gang's "Rappers' Delight", which lifts of course from Chic's "Good Times", and was the first ever song with a sample to hit the charts.

If you want to delve a bit more, you might like to check out http://www.the-breaks.com/, which can help you pin down exactly what samples are in a track...

[sixtyten]

You certainly know your stuff,Lionelvy!
I love it when people sample creatively,instead of the usual James Brown yelp or George Clinton bass lift.
I remember getting hold of a sample compilation years ago,but the sounds on offer were so outdated by then (the power riff,James brown,Riddim full of culture,etc)..it was just clique city!
I remember first hearing E=Mc2 by BAD,and loving the mix of film samples
(from Performance,one of my favorite films ever).same with Medicine show too..classic samples that become part of the song,despite having been recorded on a 12 bit Ensoniq Mirage or similar low spec sampler.
another sampling "tour de force" is Pop will eat itself's Defcon One..
and old Stourbridge boys too..Oggy may even know them

[lionelvy]

Yep, the Poppies were certainly very big on their samples. And their T-Shirts, but thats another topic

Good call on BAD btw.. "Tighten Up Vol.88" was one of my fave albums when I was younger...

Sampling and copyright issues is something I've got a bit of an interest in. I used to make mash-ups for XFM and MTV, amongst others, which are totally illegal with regards to copyright law unless you have the permission of the artists involved, so it was useful to know the exact details when the BPI used to send me their Cease & Desist orders

[sixtyten]

"sample it,loop it,**** it,eat it" by any chance??

[nottrikk]

Re: Sample City!!

The poppies you say? Now you are talking my language.

Loved the poppies. They definately were a t-shirt band (and not restricted to "sample it, loop it, $@£% it and eat it".) Wonderstuff and Neds atomic dustbin were a few other t-shirt bands that I can recall.

But more on-topic. I did find a site that hgad a list of all of the samples used just on the box frenzy album and there really were hundreds. They got away wuith it as far as i can recall as they were used for filler mainly.