Things just ain't what they use to be!

[matt]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Looking back at things, it is evolution of conglomerates with thinly spread budgets due to overextended brand portfolios, lack of respect for brand heritage and narrow thinking that have contributed a lot towards stifling creativity. Additionally, these giant brands present very high barriers to entry for new companies which, again, stifles creativity in the form of entrepreneurship.

Confectionery genius came out of much smaller, independent British companies like Mackintosh's (Quality Street, Rolo, Toffee Crisp etc. ) and Rowntrees (Kit Kat, Lion Bar, Smarties, Fruit Pastilles etc). As evidenced here on DYR, the crisp market is a shadow of what it used to be with the fantastic brands like Smiths absorbed by Walkers which, in turn, is owned by PepsiCo – another American conglomerate.

The industry is really in a sorry state and the lack of support for British-owned companies by politicians is only exacerbating the situation.

On a personal note, that is why I cherish companies like Tunnock's so much because they are few and far between.

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

I think the Cadbury company went with the most profitable bid to buy them out....

You put it perfectly right mate. If there where management at these companies who would have the guts and savvy to re-employ former brand managers who understood the heritage of the brands then sure, it could work in helping modern, younger employees to understand things better and implement them....Airfix for example is now part of Corgi and they re-employed one of the old Airfix Managers to work with them concerning all the dies/molds for all the models and I mean the actual original molds from the 1960s - to 1970s of their heyday! They wanted things done right.

As for a British company buying Cadbury? Chances were zero, all the former British sweet manufacturers are now part of Nestle or Danone or something else like Premier Foods which is also part of something else...then theres the Private Equity firms and what do they really know about food and drink save the soirees they go to and the companies they simply buy up, shore up and asset strip and sell off...? Dire times....

[darren]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Kraft and Nestle would destroy us via royalties for licencing....The only way for these brands to hark back to the glory days is to have brand managers who totally understand their heritage...and not some jumped up twanny whose bright ideas usually end down the toilet bowel once investments been spent on their brand spanking new ideas and we usually think thats naff....As for kids missing out, they sure do....Another thing that added charm to brands of yore, especially sweets and chocolates and lollies was they were also advertised in comics, you don't really see that anymore either....gone are the days of seeing Rowntrees and Cadburys or Lyons inbetween yout fave comics printed on newsprint....ahh....

Nabisco should have sold off their UK brands to UK independents instead of Nestle and as for Cadbury going to Kraft, disgusting....should have stayed a UK firm...

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why did cadbury become kraft.
was is not because the fella who onned it had no one to leave it to.
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what is the chance of brand managers who undertstand their heritage coming back and bringing these things back.
hope i explained that right.
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surely cadbury had other offers other than kraft.
could they not have sold out to another uk company.
at least keep it british.

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

its a pity mate you and a few others could start a company which would bring back a lot of these old sweets.
but would cadburys etc give u permission to do so,i doubt it.

kids nowadays are missing out on some of the great sweets we had.

Kraft and Nestle would destroy us via royalties for licencing....The only way for these brands to hark back to the glory days is to have brand managers who totally understand their heritage...and not some jumped up twanny whose bright ideas usually end down the toilet bowel once investments been spent on their brand spanking new ideas and we usually think thats naff....As for kids missing out, they sure do....Another thing that added charm to brands of yore, especially sweets and chocolates and lollies was they were also advertised in comics, you don't really see that anymore either....gone are the days of seeing Rowntrees and Cadburys or Lyons inbetween yout fave comics printed on newsprint....ahh....

Nabisco should have sold off their UK brands to UK independents instead of Nestle and as for Cadbury going to Kraft, disgusting....should have stayed a UK firm...

[darren]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

its a pity mate you and a few others could start a company which would bring back a lot of these old sweets.
but would cadburys etc give u permission to do so,i doubt it.

kids nowadays are missing out on some of the great sweets we had.

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Hi sf1378,

What I am uncertain about is the willingness of companies to generally invest in design and bring back these characters - yes Tetley did it but that was a knee-jurk reaction to pretty poor market share and I unsure as to the future. On the whole there's a culture problem with these established brands that I think needs addressing hence the need for perhaps a new entrant in the market with different ideas that might change this atttude.

I agree that when something is so engrained in to a brand's identity it is ridiculous how readily people can rubbish it - I've said it before, the Smarties tube is good example of this. There are some characters, like the Tea Folk, that I consider timeless and adaptable from decade to decade. However, the right type of 'tweaking' is needed and this is where it can go all wrong. I remember writing an article at the time on some primarily artwork that Tetley released just before the reintroduction of the Tea Folk which showed the Gaffer dressed up as a banker - we know how popular they were at the time - and Tina looking like some kind of footballer's wife. This was apparently to make them more 'current' - it was simply horrid and I still fear this could be the future. Guess we need you in there quick

Kind regards,

Matthew

That is basically the gist of things. You can't drastically alter brands like The Gaffer into a Banker, he's a working class Northerner and even as a Sri Lankan Son born down South even I realise that...What next, Sidney as a hoodie type chav?! It has to be gentily tweaked. What Consultants, Ad execs etc want is to be the so called genius who reinvents a classic with their own stamp on it....yeah right. I hated the way Tetley was rebranded...the whistling tuned ads, the jogger, all the 'health benefits'....bog off. Tea is for relaxation, enjoyment and nowt else....any tea company product is. I also hate the PG Tipps Monkey with Jonny Vegas, I also hate seeing Vegas sober, watered down and angelic in these ads....then theres the fact the monkey was the figurehead for the failed ITV Digital...how can they choose to equate failure with PG TIPPs? Mind boggles....

There aren't any types in the industry for this sort of marketing with balls....and that goes for the women too! It'll probably be a long while before I'd even begin to make any sort of a mark on the industries to create some form of successful redress but I would like to....simply due to it bringing some form of enjoyment back to the products we consume both visually, mentally and of course via our mouths and straight into our tum - tums!

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

*applauds*

big smug grin!

[matt]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Hi sf1378,

What I am uncertain about is the willingness of companies to generally invest in design and bring back these characters - yes Tetley did it but that was a knee-jurk reaction to pretty poor market share and I unsure as to the future. On the whole there's a culture problem with these established brands that I think needs addressing hence the need for perhaps a new entrant in the market with different ideas that might change this atttude.

I agree that when something is so engrained in to a brand's identity it is ridiculous how readily people can rubbish it - I've said it before, the Smarties tube is good example of this. There are some characters, like the Tea Folk, that I consider timeless and adaptable from decade to decade. However, the right type of 'tweaking' is needed and this is where it can go all wrong. I remember writing an article at the time on some primarily artwork that Tetley released just before the reintroduction of the Tea Folk which showed the Gaffer dressed up as a banker - we know how popular they were at the time - and Tina looking like some kind of footballer's wife. This was apparently to make them more 'current' - it was simply horrid and I still fear this could be the future. Guess we need you in there quick

Kind regards,

Matthew

[sixtyten]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

*Applauds*

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

sf1378,

“bring back the Chimps”...lol, I think a few of us here would like to see this but I don’t think it will happen or needs to happen. Admittedly, PG Tips packaging isn’t what it used to be with the tea lady on but at least they haven’t switched over to plastic and have tried hard to keep the brand fun with Johnny Vegas and the ‘monkey’ character. This has reflected itself in the brand’s ongoing success through the period of Tetley’s decline.

Of course, it’s great fun to see the revival of things like the Tea Folk but, at the same, it is sad that they have to resort to such strategies as it makes you wonder where the creativity has gone that created such characters in the first place. I love your determination to change things and really hope you do as I feel it might just take a new entrant to the market to show everyone the way. A recent hope for this was Cadbury heiress, Felicity Loudon, who promised to launch a British owned chocolate company in response to the Kraft takeover. Maybe I was being over optimistic – usually the case - but from what I heard Mrs. Loudon saying I was hopeful.

Regards,

Matthew

Sometimes what really works is slight tweaking of existing brands or logos or characters used to promote brands....New idiots come along and think they can do better and erase from the publics memory a 10 - 30 year old brand character like the Tea Folk or Fred and the Flour men from Home Pride say and then it all goes downhill...What is really needed is a re-injection of passion, knowledge of the brand and a zest for nostalgia....Even ad campaigns for brands that use 'retro' i.e. Spec Savers used the 'original' Mr Men for an ad and it was charming for want of punning the ad itself....the director even went as far as replicating the style of animation and even had fake 'flaws' put onto the film to make it look around 25 years old...even trying to get a voice over like the late and much missed Arthur Lowe....I do a far better Lowe, but that aside...if things work why bugger it up?

Thats why I'd love to do the sort of things that would bring back to a new generation old iconic favourites....easily identifiable but perhaps with a wee bit of tweaking....yes, new entrants are needed Matt, sometimes a genius idea is so good that whatever comes after pales into comparison. The challenge then is to use the icons and place them in new settings...

[Heather74]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Great pics thanks Matt. My Nan use to collect sweet,tea and biscuit tins but they sadly got thrown out when she passed away many years ago.

[matt]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

Huggie,

Talking about those Oxo tins I found in my loft the other day, I thought you might be interested in these pics of a beautiful Maynards Wine Gum tin I also found. You've got to love the Routemaster




All the best,

Matthew

[matt]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

sf1378,

“bring back the Chimps”...lol, I think a few of us here would like to see this but I don’t think it will happen or needs to happen. Admittedly, PG Tips packaging isn’t what it used to be with the tea lady on but at least they haven’t switched over to plastic and have tried hard to keep the brand fun with Johnny Vegas and the ‘monkey’ character. This has reflected itself in the brand’s ongoing success through the period of Tetley’s decline.

Of course, it’s great fun to see the revival of things like the Tea Folk but, at the same, it is sad that they have to resort to such strategies as it makes you wonder where the creativity has gone that created such characters in the first place. I love your determination to change things and really hope you do as I feel it might just take a new entrant to the market to show everyone the way. A recent hope for this was Cadbury heiress, Felicity Loudon, who promised to launch a British owned chocolate company in response to the Kraft takeover. Maybe I was being over optimistic – usually the case - but from what I heard Mrs. Loudon saying I was hopeful.

Regards,

Matthew

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

what chance have u of bringing back the old packaging mate.

Hmm, more chance than you mate...it takes revolutionaries to make things work again....everythings gone to pot. Are there ANY ads on tv even we like these days? Not really, sometimes you get the odd one that stands out but its all the same dross, q.e.d with food and packaging thesedays. Things need to change in that industry, if it doesn't their profits will flounder over time....I expect now Tetley have (rightly) brought back the Gaffer et al, PG Tips will bring back the Chimps.

[matt]

Re: Things just ain't what they use to be!

I think companies are trying so hard these days to keep up with trends, be socially responsible, drive down calories etc that they end up confusing themselves and the brands. With the amount of ‘free from’, ‘now x% lower in fat’ and ‘100% wholegrain’ type health messages now plastered very prominently across packaging I don’t know whether I’m buying a health product or a tasty treat.

A fine example of this is, again, Tetley. Originally Tetley was a class act with a very British feel to it and a warm, friendly identity courtesy of the Tea Folk. It then got rid of the Tea Folk, redesigned its packaging to convey a healthy/fresh look and focused its advertising budget on the health benefits of drinking tea. Of course, these health messages said nothing about why we as the consumers should buy Tetley, sapped all the fun and warmth out of the brand and totally missed the point of why the British drink tea in the first place. Of course, people became indifferent, sales dropped and years later they’ve had to bring back the Tea Folk.

Good business is pretty common sense stuff at the end of the day but what I have discovered over the years is that common sense is increasingly becoming one of man’s rarest qualities.