Life in Britain in the early 1980s

[George 1978]

Thatcher was not a woman of war. She knew nothing about warfare. She probably didn't know one end of a rifle from the other!

Her strategy was to place trust in our military top brass then reap the rewards of the victory. She ended up as a superhero who did nothing except subcontract out decision making to people with the expertise in fighting wars.

My mother thought that Thatcher was a bit of a fraud who was potentially trying to set herself up as another Winston Churchill (a superhero who was a lousy peacetime politician) after the Falklands victory, except that her finest hour wasn't her own.

Some people even thought of Tony Blair in the same way because of the Iraq War - back in the 1980s, was there any other female leader in politics anywhere in the world that took more clout than Thatcher?

I suppose in many ways she was just a leader who happened to be female. The "Diana Gould on Nationwide" interview is worth watching as Gould did to Thatcher what Robin Day or Frost would never have done on a TV programme. "You said in the first part of your answer..." etc.

My late mother would have been a bit more pro-Thatcher than anyone else, but on the other hand, my late father did vote for the SDP Liberal Alliance in 1987.

[Arran]

Some people even thought of Tony Blair in the same way because of the Iraq War - back in the 1980s, was there any other female leader in politics anywhere in the world that took more clout than Thatcher?

I suppose in many ways she was just a leader who happened to be female. The "Diana Gould on Nationwide" interview is worth watching as Gould did to Thatcher what Robin Day or Frost would never have done on a TV programme. "You said in the first part of your answer..." etc.

My late mother would have been a bit more pro-Thatcher than anyone else, but on the other hand, my late father did vote for the SDP Liberal Alliance in 1987.

There was a massive difference between Thatcher and Blair. The Falklands war was a case of defending a British territory after it was invaded by Argentina, whereas the Iraq war was a (potentially illegal) case of fighting somebody else's war with no direct benefit to Britain.

My mother says that if she was old enough to vote in the 1983 general election then she would seriously have considered voting Labour. The Falklands victory effected handed Thatcher a licence to con the public into thinking that she was a true patriot, when in reality she would sink Britain ever deeper into the EU and wreck strategic manufacturing and engineering industries at the behest of the City spivs. Labour had a leader with poor image and economic policies that were too hard left for most people's tastes, but they were committed to withdrawing Britain from the EU and understood the value of manufacturing and engineering industries over investment banking.

An analogy is that the Conservative Party under Thatcher was a patriotic party as much as an XR3i was a sports car. Ford managed to con thousands of working class folk from Essex that a family hatchback with a spoiler on the boot lid powered by a gasping 1.6 litre engine with a few extra HP provided by Bosch K-Jetronic was a sports car. Thatcher managed to con thousands of working class folk from Essex that the Conservatives were a patriotic party by kicking the Argentinians out of an obscure island in the south Atlantic, along with a guilt by association type claim that Labour has the same policy as the Communist Party, namely withdrawal from the EU.

In both cases the public had to pay for extras…

https://forums.doyouremember.co.uk/f...u-pay-for-more

[Arran]

Did the trade unions of any other professions back in the 1980s have as much prominence in the news back then as the miners did when they went on strike? As a school pupil (i.e. a consumer of education) back then I know that the NASUWT and NUT had the occasional strike, and thus, we had the odd day off from school, or it was the case that the UNISON people such as the lollipop ladies and cleaners and all that did the same, and so with the former, we had a policeman showing us across the road instead at morning rush hour. I don't think that either Nigel de Gruchy or Doug McAvoy were the Arthur Scargill of teaching unions were they? - they never had such high profile even if they served minors rather than miners.

There was the ITV strike and Red Robbo in British Leyland, but that was in the late 1970s.

Another prominent strike with plenty of media coverage was the Wapping newspaper print workers in 1986. It was caused by new computer technology killing the jobs of print workers who operated now obsolete traditional printing machinery.

The NUM was capable of holding the government to ransom during the 1970s and 80s because a high proportion of electricity was generated in coal fired power stations. The militancy of Scargill combined with environmental legislation sounded the death knell of coal fired power stations in Britain.

The reality of the matter was that British coal mining had officially died around 1970 and was in the process of being gradually wound down as demand for coal dwindled. By 1980 the primary purpose of British coal mines was to supply coal to power stations as other markets were now very limited.

[George 1978]

My mother says that if she was old enough to vote in the 1983 general election then she would seriously have considered voting Labour. The Falklands victory effected handed Thatcher a licence to con the public into thinking that she was a true patriot, when in reality she would sink Britain ever deeper into the EU and wreck strategic manufacturing and engineering industries at the behest of the City spivs. Labour had a leader with poor image and economic policies that were too hard left for most people's tastes, but they were committed to withdrawing Britain from the EU and understood the value of manufacturing and engineering industries over investment banking.

I have heard of a lot of people who said that Michael Foot didn't even look like a Prime Minister when they saw the repeat of the 1983 General Election coverage on BBC Parliament. In the Nottingham City constituencies, the Conservatives won in all three, even though in Nottingham East for example, the Labour candidate was defeated on over 16,000 votes - a thousand more than his counterpart in 1979. Also, the SDP took around 3,000 votes away from Labour and had 4,000 more votes than the Liberal candidate in 1979, allowing the Conservative candidate to win, who was even opposed by an Independent Conservative candidate. Ironic that this was the election when Corbyn was elected for the first time.

Labour were too left-wing under Foot, hence the "Gang of Four" and the foundation of the SDP - people still remember the Winter of Discontent in 1978-1979 which was full of strikes i.e. bins not emptied for a month and all that - that was one reason why Thatcher set foot in Downing Street as PM. Also, the left-wingness of Labour was another reason why Robert Kilroy-Silk took the Chiltern Hundreds in order to launch a career as a TV presenter.

[Arran]

I have heard of a lot of people who said that Michael Foot didn't even look like a Prime Minister when they saw the repeat of the 1983 General Election coverage on BBC Parliament. In the Nottingham City constituencies, the Conservatives won in all three, even though in Nottingham East for example, the Labour candidate was defeated on over 16,000 votes - a thousand more than his counterpart in 1979. Also, the SDP took around 3,000 votes away from Labour and had 4,000 more votes than the Liberal candidate in 1979, allowing the Conservative candidate to win, who was even opposed by an Independent Conservative candidate. Ironic that this was the election when Corbyn was elected for the first time.

Labour were too left-wing under Foot, hence the "Gang of Four" and the foundation of the SDP - people still remember the Winter of Discontent in 1978-1979 which was full of strikes i.e. bins not emptied for a month and all that - that was one reason why Thatcher set foot in Downing Street as PM. Also, the left-wingness of Labour was another reason why Robert Kilroy-Silk took the Chiltern Hundreds in order to launch a career as a TV presenter.

Michael Foot didn't look like a prime minister but Margaret Thatcher didn't function like a prime minister before the Falklands war started!

The term political 'left' is vague. Michael Foot and Jeremy Corbyn are generally deemed to be far left but they are different flavours of the left. Foot was of the hard economic left but Corbyn is an internationalist of the Metropolitan set progressive left. A man who represents Johnny Foreigner and undeserving minorities rather than the interests of working class folk.

Compare a political map from 1983 with one from 2019. Notice that in 1983 Labour lost the marginal constituencies and the more working class constituencies in the south, and did particularly badly in London, but solidly held onto the coal mining areas and industrial towns in the north. In 2019 Labour lost numerous (former?) coal mining areas and industrial towns in the midlands and the north (the so called red wall constituencies) to the Conservatives but solidly held onto London and the trendy cities like Bristol, Manchester, Oxford etc.

Also of note is how there was no opposition from any small parties in the industrial and coal mining Labour strongholds in the north and midlands back in 1983. The Brexit party cut deeply into these areas in 2019, which is further indication of the hatred of Labour under Corbyn and which flavour of politics the residents of these areas prefer. In London and the trendy cities, the Brexit Party vote was subdued (or even quite poor) in comparison.

The voters in coal mining areas would rather dig their eyes out than vote Conservative back in 1983, but several – including Sedgefield, Bassetlaw, Leigh, Don Valley – were won by the Conservatives in 2019 whilst Labour held onto middle class Canterbury (which they did not even win back in the 1997 landslide election).

Foot and Corbyn had completely different demographic support bases. Labour under Corbyn probably took the vast majority of the votes from the very poor and socioeconomic group E, but otherwise it drew much of its vote from students, 20 something graduates, hipsters, and the comfortably well off Guardian reading progressive left from London and the trendy cities, whereas Labour under Foot drew much of its vote from the white British blue collar workers employed in the mining and manufacturing industries who read the Mirror and watched ITV. The quinoa salad and latte made with plant milk demographic vs the steak and kidney pie and builders tea demographic.

[Arran]

Also take into account how there were fewer students, graduates, and hipsters around in 1983 compared with 2019. A 20 something in 1983 would more likely have only a secondary school, apprenticeship, or vocational level of education, rather than a degree; be married or seriously looking for a spouse; and a homeowner (with a mortgage) or saving up a deposit to be a homeowner unless they were a council tenant. They would also be a lot more socially conservative (with a small c) regardless of their economic views and desired to live in a pleasant suburb rather than a trendy city.

[Arran]

The TV-am interview with Scargill from 1984 is worth watching on YouTube - fascinating to see John Stapleton interview him, and you know that Scargill looks out of place on that Thatcherite TV-am sofa.

He does. My mother views Scargill as yesterday's man who's life revolves around coal mining and smokestack industries. His Socialist Labour Party is an analogue anachronism with an objective of transporting Britain back to the 1970s. It's members don't like computers and neither do they understand them well.

[George 1978]

Also take into account how there were fewer students, graduates, and hipsters around in 1983 compared with 2019. A 20 something in 1983 would more likely have only a secondary school, apprenticeship, or vocational level of education, rather than a degree; be married or seriously looking for a spouse; and a homeowner (with a mortgage) or saving up a deposit to be a homeowner unless they were a council tenant. They would also be a lot more socially conservative (with a small c) regardless of their economic views and desired to live in a pleasant suburb rather than a trendy city.

In the same year, academic quiz shows like Blockbusters were on TV, as well as University Challenge - interesting that in the early series of Blockbusters the contestants wore their school uniform, although I assumed that their school had made them do that a la the UN Conference Trip episodes of Grange Hill in 1984. Another thing was that some ITV stations like Central had a Jobfinder service at 4.00 am when 24 hour broadcasting on ITV started, and also the YTS was starting up.

My older sister was very much in "beans on toast" territory after she was kicked out of the family home (a long story), - she studied art at a local college but she lived in cheap bedsits in inner-city areas before she found her niche and met Mr Right - my other sister went straight from school to being an assistant in a shoe shop, and apart from maternity leave in the early 1990s, worked in shops for most of her working life.

[George 1978]

Michael Foot didn't look like a prime minister but Margaret Thatcher didn't function like a prime minister before the Falklands war started!

I always think of Stanley Baxter as Mr Majeika when I think of Michael Foot!

But I am sure you remember the Labour Party logo that they had before Kinnock introduced the rose in around 1985 - a red flag logo with THE LABOUR PARTY written across it. Now, that screams to me "COMMUNISM" when I see it now. And Pete "Open House" Murray on BBC's Breakfast Time was invited to review the daily newspapers, causing controversy by saying "a vote for Labour is a vote for communism - may the Lord have mercy on your soul if you don't vote Conservative". No one would have bat an eyelid if Murray had said that in The Telegraph or The Mail. The differences between written and visual media indeed. Labour were like flares - they were out of fashion by the early 1980s.

[George 1978]

He does. My mother views Scargill as yesterday's man who's life revolves around coal mining and smokestack industries. His Socialist Labour Party is an analogue anachronism with an objective of transporting Britain back to the 1970s. It's members don't like computers and neither do they understand them well.

I used to think that everyone who sat on the TV-am sofa (and no doubt everyone who appeared on TV-am) in the 1980s (presenters included) were Conservative voters - only the political guests that Frost interviewed on Sunday mornings made me think otherwise. The fact of the matter was that: A) its first CEO was Jonathan Aitken - a sitting MP which the IBA forbid him to do because of political bias; B) Aiken's successor Bruce Gyngell was great friends with Margaret Thatcher, and to be honest, Gyngell felt to me like a Conservative MP in a TV executive's body; and: C) Carol Thatcher's (her daughter) worked at TV-am as well. D) Gyles Brandreth was a presenter who later became a Conservative MP, etc... I could go on.

Trade unionists seemed to be "backwards" back then, and that trade unions again, like wearing flares - out of date.

[Arran]

The Labour Party technically died in 1979. It's been a ghost party ever since.

[Arran]

I used to think that everyone who sat on the TV-am sofa (and no doubt everyone who appeared on TV-am) in the 1980s (presenters included) were Conservative voters - only the political guests that Frost interviewed on Sunday mornings made me think otherwise. The fact of the matter was that: A) its first CEO was Jonathan Aitken - a sitting MP which the IBA forbid him to do because of political bias; B) Aiken's successor Bruce Gyngell was great friends with Margaret Thatcher, and to be honest, Gyngell felt to me like a Conservative MP in a TV executive's body; and: C) Carol Thatcher's (her daughter) worked at TV-am as well. D) Gyles Brandreth was a presenter who later became a Conservative MP, etc... I could go on.

Trade unionists seemed to be "backwards" back then, and that trade unions again, like wearing flares - out of date.

There's a strange paradox that the political left in Britain defends the BBC to the hilt but the working and lower class folk have long preferred ITV to the BBC.

I think that a trade union was a stake holder in one of the competitors to Tyne Tees in the north east ITV region in the 1980 franchise round. Had that company won then it would have generated millions of pounds for that trade union.

The Daily Mirror owned a satellite TV channel called Mirrorvision which launched in June 1985. It showed films.

http://www.terramedia.co.uk/Chronomedia/years/1985.htm

[George 1978]

The Labour Party technically died in 1979. It's been a ghost party ever since.

Very true! - I assume that Blair's New Labour wasn't the same party!!!

[George 1978]

There's a strange paradox that the political left in Britain defends the BBC to the hilt but the working and lower class folk have long preferred ITV to the BBC.

I think that a trade union was a stake holder in one of the competitors to Tyne Tees in the north east ITV region in the 1980 franchise round. Had that company won then it would have generated millions of pounds for that trade union.

I would have thought that as most trade unions were allied to the Labour Party, it would mean that any union holding a stake in an ITV company (or any company for that matter) would mean that there would be political bias implicated. I wonder what the IBA thought of that at the time?

[Arran]

I would have thought that as most trade unions were allied to the Labour Party, it would mean that any union holding a stake in an ITV company (or any company for that matter) would mean that there would be political bias implicated. I wonder what the IBA thought of that at the time?

Good question. Remember that ITV companies (or more precisely programme contractors) were owned by other companies or were a plc, with the result that their owners could easily be political biased, although the ITV company had to be impartial whilst on screen.

Southern Television lost because it was a closed company owned by companies that were not based in the region which were also involved in print media. At the time, simultaneous ownership of both broadcast media and print media was heavily frowned upon.