The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

[George 1978]

Do you mean ILEA territory? Outer London boroughs (Sutton, Hounslow, Enfield, etc.) functioned as their own LEAs with no central authority.

I just mean general Local Education Authorities wherever they happen to be.

I know that the big comprehensive up the road (I think it's an academy these days) had around 1,750 pupils on roll in the early 1990s, and they had tutor groups like 1P1, 1P2, 1H1, 1H2 and so on which I assumed that the school had so many pupils that the forms had to be split into two. I never went to the school myself as a pupil, (however my local MP did, I believe!) - I used to attend a Saturday morning workshop at that place, hence getting an inside view of that school back then.

[Arran]

did London LEAs have the letter first followed by the number, hence GH doing that?

Do you mean ILEA territory? Outer London boroughs (Sutton, Hounslow, Enfield, etc.) functioned as their own LEAs with no central authority.

A friend started at secondary school in September 1988. His form group was:

1T1 for Y7. T was an abbreviation for the house name Talisman. There was another house called Vanguard, and two others he can't remember the names of.

2RS for Y8. RS were the initials of his tutor, as form groups for Y7 and future students were no longer tied to houses, although everybody in 2RS was in Talisman.

9RS to 11RS for Y9 to Y11. The new year group numbering system had been introduced when he started Y9.

His younger brother started in September 1990 in form group 7SY. He was also in Talisman house but there were kids from all 4 houses in this form group.

[George 1978]

Were year groups ever mentioned in Grange Hill around this time?

I can't be certain but GH must have adapted to it by the mid 1990s but it must have taken longer than their real life counterparts. The 1995 series, perhaps?

By the way, form groups were known for example as A1 in the series rather than 1A, apart from the first series where it was One Alpha - did London LEAs have the letter first followed by the number, hence GH doing that?

[Arran]

although I think it was John Major's government (along with the National Curriculum and the Education Reform Act 1988) which were responsible for the changes.

The Act introduced the 4 key stages (although they did somewhat exist in schools before then) but I don't think it introduced the year group numbering system used from September 1990.

There might be some information in old copies of the TES about the legislation introducing a new year group numbering system.

I was verbally informed by a friend about some confusion with the police that took place in the early months of 1991. His school was independent and still used 1st to 5th form rather than Y7 to Y11. A kid at the school told the police in an interview that he was in 4th form and it was later misinterpreted as being Y4 rather than Y10. Therefore the new year group system must have been used in the LEA and the police force which covered it was already aware of it.

Grange Hill (as the news series always coincided with calendar year, and only the autumn repeat coincided with the start of the academic year), probably didn't follow this trend until the 1992 series, perhaps?

Were year groups ever mentioned in Grange Hill around this time?

[Arran]

I'm not sure if LEAs adopted a standard system of year group numbering for all their schools prior to September 1990 or devolved the matter to individual schools. After all, students could be 2nd form at a secondary school and 4th year at a middle school in the same LEA.

I used to take the national year group numbering for granted when I was at school as it was the only system I had experience of. My mother always used it and never referred to Y10 as 4th form or Y4 as 2nd year juniors or Y2 as upper infants, and the like. I'm actually surprised that the national year group numbering was only introduced as recently as 1990. Formal education publications from before that date tend to refer to children by their chronological age rather than any system of year groups.

[George 1978]

I think that it is because there is no definitive answer - there seems to be regional variations around the country, just like there is when half-tern holidays happen.

Even the difference between Nottingham City and Nottinghamshire County post-April 1998 is more than apparent. I bet that if Nottingham City Council had been a unitary authority back in 1991, they would have had a different pace as to the County Council when it came to the changes in year numbers.

[Arran]

Nobody has come up with an answer to the question: what year group numbering system was formerly used in LEAs with first, middle, and high schools instead of primary and secondary schools?

Some anecdotal information I have is:

High schools used 3rd form to 5th form for Y9 to Y11 even though they didn’t have a 1st form and a 2nd form, as this was covered by middle school. The same numbering system used by secondary schools.

Middle schools used 1st year to 4th year for Y5 to Y8. 1st form and 2nd form for Y7 and Y8 were rarely used even though they were almost always used for students in these year groups who attended secondary schools – even in the same LEA.

First schools used 1st year to 4th year for Y1 to Y4. Some used 1st year to 5th year if they counted reception class as 1st year. First schools tended not to differentiate between infant and junior year groups like many primary schools did. They often used class number or teacher name, rather than year group, for correspondence in the same way as primary schools did.

It appears a bit strange moving from 4th year at middle school (Y8) into 3rd form at high school (Y9)…

[Arran]

I'm sure this has been discussed before a few years ago.

The new year group system came into use in September 1990. Some LEAs, or even individual schools, may have been hesitant at adopting it in everyday use for a few years, but it still existed formally.

Secondary schools previously used form, not year, and were prefixed - first form to fifth form (or occasionally I form to V form, always in Roman numerals) for Year 7 to Year 11 respectively.

Any ideas what year group numbering system was formerly used in LEAs with first, middle, and high schools instead of primary and secondary schools?

The so called "third year infants" was Y2 as a result of counting the reception class as the first year. It still somewhat exists in infant schools today but not in primary schools.

[80sChav]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

Stoke City and Port Vale were also shuffled between the 3rd Divisions North & South to balance things out.

As was Walsall, Coventry and Shrewsbury to name but 3 more too Richard, yeah!!

[Richard1978]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

Stoke City and Port Vale were also shuffled between the 3rd Divisions North & South to balance things out.

[80sChav]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

Did different LEAs around the country introduce the system at different times, I wonder? Nottinghamshire County Council (pre-Nottingham City unitary authority) definitely did so in September 1991 - perhaps the London and southern LEAs did that the year before?

I wondered there were a north-south divide with adapting to it, and that the northern LEAs were reluctant to the changes?

It was easily 1991 for me George or when I lived in East Yorks/Humberside at that "hour of day"! I can recall though Grange Hill never had the new system until Series 14 in 1991, so obviously they had advance knowledge as every Series was filmed the year before - so that potentialy rules out a North-South divide issue as everything is more often than not rolled out in London before anywhere else - even though GH was fictional.

Though if it was North-South divided where would the divide be as for you in Nottingham, even with regional Football Divisions North and South 3, both Nottingham Teams went South as did Mansfield sometimes (which I consider crazy as it's only 20 mins from Sheffield) as did Shrewsbury, who I had a friend from and he hated being classed as South - though all these Towns are justifably Midlands Towns and City's and not North or South!!

80sChav

[George 1978]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

Did different LEAs around the country introduce the system at different times, I wonder? Nottinghamshire County Council (pre-Nottingham City unitary authority) definitely did so in September 1991 - perhaps the London and southern LEAs did that the year before?

I wondered there were a north-south divide with adapting to it, and that the northern LEAs were reluctant to the changes?

[Trickyvee]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

I’d say it was the 1989-1990 school year. That’s when it was in my school anyway. I went from 2nd year up into year 9.

[80sChav]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

I think I am ultra-certain George it was the 1990-1991 School Year and Grange Hill had the first change in 1991 from it being the 3rd year in old currency!!

Not as I remember much about it in the 1990 segmount of the "School Year 1990-1991", as I missed most of the first half of it for personal reasons from Sept to Feb/March, but yep do recall begrudgingly having to put 9 to represent the Year instead of 3rd year - though i accepted but still think it sounds silly today!

80sChav

[George 1978]

Re: The third year becoming Year Nine and all that

That's interesting, Richard because I thought it was 1991 - that's when my school adopted it. Grange Hill (as the news series always coincided with calendar year, and only the autumn repeat coincided with the start of the academic year), probably didn't follow this trend until the 1992 series, perhaps?

I have never heard of a Year 0 to describe primary, or even a nursery or reception class - I believe that the sixth form was referred to as Year 12?