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Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

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  • #31
    Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

    big-interview-marc-almond-i-find-that-modern-youth-modern-life-is-becoming-so-conservative-1-8185557

    This is exactly right and highly relevant to the above discussion.
    Last edited by Silver Bear; 13-11-2017, 13:22.

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    • #32
      Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

      Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
      I find it hard to understand the cult of Jeremy Corbyn. He's a dreary little man with a whiny, droning voice and a bureaucratic, extreme politically correct mentality. He wants everyone to be 'equal' under the state - equally poor, stupid and mediocre, that is. His Shadow Cabinet is 'gender balanced' and that tells you all you need to know: he doesn't even appoint people on merit.

      There probably be would be British 'boat people' if he got in.
      Many people are fed up with a Tory government who treats anyone with less than mid 5 figure income with complete contempt, especially as they led the right wing media dictate too much too them, along with too many working class "goons" who are fooled into voting against their best interests by playing the race card.

      At the moment Labour are the only choice, & with a more centre ground leader they would well ahead in the polls,
      The Trickster On The Roof

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      • #33
        Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

        Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
        We are far less well-informed than we were in the 70s and 80s because much of the mass media is dominated by Z-list celeb culture and general blandness. There is a culture of PC hysteria which all of the political parties are part of - and we are all lumped into groups based on acronyms rather than treated as individuals. There there is the snowflake culture where everyone is constantly 'offended' by the least thing. The result is that even ordinary conversation is going to become a daring adventure. Who needs dictatorship when you can have political correctness and dumbing-down?

        ... Usually laugh at all the PC drivel, but stepping back I realise that it's actually not funny but quite scary. ...
        It's what happens if you let the right wing media get out of control, nearly 40 years of the tail wagging the dog.
        The Trickster On The Roof

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        • #34
          Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

          Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
          We are far less well-informed than we were in the 70s and 80s because much of the mass media is dominated by Z-list celeb culture and general blandness. There is a culture of PC hysteria which all of the political parties are part of - and we are all lumped into groups based on acronyms rather than treated as individuals. There there is the snowflake culture where everyone is constantly 'offended' by the least thing. The result is that even ordinary conversation is going to become a daring adventure. Who needs dictatorship when you can have political correctness and dumbing-down?

          ... Usually laugh at all the PC drivel, but stepping back I realise that it's actually not funny but quite scary. ...
          I disagree with this. The internet has enabled parties from outside of the Lib-Lab-Con establishment to cut through the media blackout that they faced in the 20th century. It has strongly contributed to the successes of the Green Party, UKIP, and the BNP.

          Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.

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          • #35
            Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

            Originally posted by Arran View Post
            Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.
            Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.

            It's as I mentioned before the fringe parties can get a boost if they push an idea the main parties won't touch, but hen they do the fringe ones fade away.
            The Trickster On The Roof

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            • #36
              Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

              Originally posted by Arran View Post
              Any historian of politics cannot miss how the BNP transformed themselves from a fringe party with a couple of hundred members in 1996 into a serious political force in 2010 with two MEPs and a strong showing in the general election.
              They sort of ... rose without trace, in the sense that they didn't 'do' anything with their MEPs and Council seats. Unlike the Liberals in the 70s, they didn't get into community politics in a big way. They had only one idea (race and immigration) and that didn't translate into practical policies. I suppose the current emphasis on the 'white working class' is a lasting legacy, taken up by Ukip and the Brexiteers. Last time I looked - and I admit that I see this through an urban and specifically London lens - the working class was not just white, but very likely to be black or mixed race. In fact many working class areas are far more multi-ethnic than middle-class suburbs.

              BTW, I have always wondered if Nick Griffin is really an obese woman dressed as a man. He looked a bit 'non-binary' and had a high-pitched voice with a slight nasal twang: in fact he was an almost exact soundalike for Caroline Wyatt, who used to be the BBC's Defence and then Religious Affairs correspondent.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                Originally posted by Richard1978 View Post
                Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.

                It's as I mentioned before the fringe parties can get a boost if they push an idea the main parties won't touch, but hen they do the fringe ones fade away.
                UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                  Originally posted by Arran View Post
                  Before 1987 the election deposit was £100 but it was only returned to candidates who managed to win at least 12.5% of the vote.
                  The deposit was actually £150 from when it was introduced in 1918 right up until 1985.
                  I've everything I need to keep me satisfied
                  There's nothing you can do to make me change my mind
                  I'm having so much fun
                  My lucky number's one
                  Ah! Oh! Ah! Oh!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                    Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
                    UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.
                    I've heard a few amusing stories about UKIP & BNP elected candidates not having a clue what to do after being elected.
                    The Trickster On The Roof

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                    • #40
                      Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                      Originally posted by Richard1978 View Post
                      Though almost straight after UKIP stole their ideas, & now the Tories have borrowed from UKIP, though it's not worked as well as they hoped.
                      UKIP were soft as butter on immigration back in the early 2000s. Anybody who dared to question the government's immigration policy or claim that immigration is too high was suspected to be an infiltrator from the BNP. It's not clear whether UKIP toughened up their stance on immigration because they had realised that immigration genuinely was too high or whether they were worried about the rise of BNP support on the back of public sentiment about immigration.

                      Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
                      UKIP seem to have been similar to the BNP at local level, i.e. they did bugger all when they were elected and so didn't build up any local loyalty. And Paul Nuttall was a bit of a pound shop version of Farage.
                      UKIP were always weak at local level and their members were unenthusiastic about local politics because most of them joined to free Britain from the EU rather than deal with mundane matters like grass verges and blocked drains.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                        I can understand why they reduced the deposit threshold in 1985 - quite a few Labour candidates lost their deposits in 1983 - Keith Vaz was one of them, and ironically enough, most of them would have saved their deposit if they had got the same percentage at the 1987 General Election.
                        I've everything I need to keep me satisfied
                        There's nothing you can do to make me change my mind
                        I'm having so much fun
                        My lucky number's one
                        Ah! Oh! Ah! Oh!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                          Originally posted by Silver Bear View Post
                          They sort of ... rose without trace, in the sense that they didn't 'do' anything with their MEPs and Council seats. Unlike the Liberals in the 70s, they didn't get into community politics in a big way. They had only one idea (race and immigration) and that didn't translate into practical policies. I suppose the current emphasis on the 'white working class' is a lasting legacy, taken up by Ukip and the Brexiteers. Last time I looked - and I admit that I see this through an urban and specifically London lens - the working class was not just white, but very likely to be black or mixed race. In fact many working class areas are far more multi-ethnic than middle-class suburbs.
                          The BNP got into community politics in a big way. Maybe not in London but out in several provincial towns and cities they were serious committed to council elections with local activists door knocking in the cold and the rain campaigning on 'cracked pavement' local issues as well as immigration. Think about Sandwell, Burnley, Stoke, and Bradford to name a few. They even had (surprise?) victories in Derbyshire, Staffordshire Moorlands, Leicestershire, and Broxbourne in Hertfordshire.


                          Demographic changes in society mean that old broad class based politics is dying and identity politics is likely to be the way forwards. People tend to associate themselves with others who share their culture and interests rather than their social class. Round my way working class Muslims rub shoulders with Muslim doctors and accountants in the mosque but they do not rub shoulders with white non-Muslim working class English folk in the pub. The same working class Muslims watch Islam channel or Peace TV alongside the Muslim doctors and accountants rather than Eastenders and X-factor that the white non-Muslim working class English folk watch. White non-Muslim middle class English folk seem to hold the view that you are not middle class unless you drink wine on a regular basis but the Muslim doctors and accountants don't drink wine so are they middle class or not? Huge disparities in wealth and status are undeniable but there are times when I think that the traditional class system is a very English mindset that does not really apply to people who are part of certain other communities. Working class unity and solidarity are now the dreams of people who are living in the past.

                          BTW, I have always wondered if Nick Griffin is really an obese woman dressed as a man. He looked a bit 'non-binary' and had a high-pitched voice with a slight nasal twang: in fact he was an almost exact soundalike for Caroline Wyatt, who used to be the BBC's Defence and then Religious Affairs correspondent.

                          I cannot prove this but both myself and my mother suspect that Nick Griffin, aka Nick Gri££in and Griff Nickin, was an agent of the Conservative Party deliberately out to wreck the BNP when the Conservatives return to power. Hint: have a look at his father Edgar Griffin who was a long standing member of the Conservative Party and a high degree Freemason.


                          Even more sinister is second in command Simon Darby, aka 5IMon Darby, who is suspected to be a state agent. I find it strange how such a mediocre Nationalist, who talks about nothing but computers and wildlife, rises to deputy leader in such a short a space of time. Nobody knows where he gets his money from or how he managed to afford his grand house in Cannock. All attempts to find his upholstered furniture business in Dudley have been unsuccessful. Richard Barnbrook told a friend that Simon Darby ran a metal ores business but there has been no sign of this either.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                            Originally posted by George 1978 View Post
                            I can understand why they reduced the deposit threshold in 1985 - quite a few Labour candidates lost their deposits in 1983 - Keith Vaz was one of them, and ironically enough, most of them would have saved their deposit if they had got the same percentage at the 1987 General Election.
                            Keith Vaz: don’t you mean Jim the washing machine salesman!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                              Originally posted by Richard1978 View Post
                              Many people are fed up with a Tory government who treats anyone with less than mid 5 figure income with complete contempt, especially as they led the right wing media dictate too much too them, along with too many working class "goons" who are fooled into voting against their best interests by playing the race card.

                              At the moment Labour are the only choice, & with a more centre ground leader they would well ahead in the polls,
                              I have a lot of sympathy for that but I’m just not convinced by Jeremy Corbyn. He comes across as a very weak leader. For example, he was virtually silent during the Brexit referendum and didn’t do anything to try to reach working-class voters who were likely to suffer the economic effects of Brexit (short term or long term). Then there was Shami Chakrabarti, who demanded (and got) a seat in the House of Lords after writing a very weak report on anti-Semitism. And in the last week, a real leader would have stepped in after the suicide of Carl Sergeant and taken a stand against a crazy witch hunt where people are not even told what they are being accused of! Instead he just hid behind ‘correct procedure’.
                              Weak, weak, weak.

                              There was a fair amount to be said for the pre-Thatcher ‘One Nation’ Tory Party which had a social conscience (and cared about the environment) but I can’t see them returning to that approach soon. A decent Centre party (not the Fib Dems) would be a good thing - and I would also like to have a fair voting system which didn’t rely so heavily on a few marginal seats.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Eccentric election candidates/political parties in the 70s/80s

                                Originally posted by Richard1978 View Post
                                It's what happens if you let the right wing media get out of control, nearly 40 years of the tail wagging the dog.
                                We’ve got right-wing political correctness with the Mail accusing people of being ‘traitors’ etc., and left-wing political correctness where even modest criticism of extreme feminism is ‘sexist’ and we are lumped into artificial groupings like LGBT (even though none of these ‘letters’ have anything in common with each other) and BME (as if all ethnic minorities were the same). Genuine liberal reforms are very positive: thanks to New Labour I could have a civil partnership and thanks to David Cameron I’ve been able to marry my long-term partner). But political correctness is illiberal and an attempt to shut down discussion.

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