Discipline!

[philipdalton]

Re: Discipline!

Alright, PhilipDalton? Motsy's on here as well.

Could you please explain to me exactly what you are talking about?

[vanhelsing]

Re: Discipline!

I think there's no discipline in the world today, and no justice either. I've been replying regularly to a thread on DigitalSpy about bringing back the cane/slipper at school and the other posters have had me banned from the forum now for a fortnight because they think I seem to be obsessed with violence against children.

What sort of a world is it where you can't speak your mind without others criticizing you?

Alright, PhilipDalton? Motsy's on here as well.

[havasack]

Re: Discipline!

So because Group A with money does it, its ok for Group B with less to cheat the system as well?.

Sorry, the phrase 'specious argument' was invented for arguments like that. Its like saying its ok to give the wife a slap now and then because the man next door does it every night. 'Everybody does it' is not a legitimate excuse.

Don't put words in my mouth as that's not what I said at all but to build on your allegory it's more like my neighbour slaps hif wife, the police break down his door, beat him up and cart him off. My other neighbour beats his wife and kids with a claw hammer giving them multiple skull fractures. The police come round and explain to him what to say to get away with it and give him a new hammer.

To reiterate, some in one group screws the system but many innocent are also tarred with the same brush. On the other hand there is another group which screws the system for far, far more and they are aided and abetted by the state and barely a word is said against them by Government or media while the entire first group, including innocent are castigated by the same.

If someone stole £100 per month from you and someone else stole £10 per month fromn you, which would cause you more ire ?

Panoramas shadow tax special from the other week is still on Iplayer, give it a watch or better still read Private eyes current issue 4 page special on it.

Again I don't think both should be able to do it but I do think we have it the wrong way round in dishing out blame and retribution.

[ayrshireman]

Re: Discipline!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-tax-avoidance

So because Group A with money does it, its ok for Group B with less to cheat the system as well?.

Sorry, the phrase 'specious argument' was invented for arguments like that. Its like saying its ok to give the wife a slap now and then because the man next door does it every night. 'Everybody does it' is not a legitimate excuse.

[havasack]

Re: Discipline!

Hava, its not a small thing. It costs us billions, and the number of those who refuse to work and simply scrounge benefits (as opposed to those like you and I who might be unemployed but looking for work) is a substantial number.

I KNOW it is, my friend. As I have spent half my working life of 20+ years working for the Benefits Agency in some of the worst parts of Glasgow and in Ayrshire, even for a short secondment in Newcastle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-tax-avoidance

[philipdalton]

Re: Discipline!

I've gathered together a few YouTube videos here expressing different viewpoints on the practice of 'paddling', or corporal punishment, currently used in US schools. It is worth noting that at the end of the day it was the young lady who had been on the receiving end of it who thought it 'wasn't that bad'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWGae...t=HL1380311594
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Qvf...t=HL1380311877
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaay5gCuyjw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbRHNGNxSlM

[ayrshireman]

Re: Discipline!

Amethyst I think you have it wrong. Most people today are desperate to speak their mind but support their views loyally like a football supporter and don't examine them when new information comes to light. Also strange that you pick on people ripping off the benefits system which is a tiny thing compared corporate and high end tax avoidance which is mainly done by those who have lied and robbed us into the positon we are now in.

Hava, its not a small thing. It costs us billions, and the number of those who refuse to work and simply scrounge benefits (as opposed to those like you and I who might be unemployed but looking for work) is a substantial number.

I KNOW it is, my friend. As I have spent half my working life of 20+ years working for the Benefits Agency in some of the worst parts of Glasgow and in Ayrshire, even for a short secondment in Newcastle.

[havasack]

Re: Discipline!

Another thing is people who speak their minds, then can't live with the consquences when it's pointed out how wrong/offensive they are.

Again that goes back to people who have their opinions as a matter of faith, never examine them, can't change them. Nothing wrong with airing your views if you are willing to entertain others.

[Richard1978]

Re: Discipline!

Another thing is people who speak their minds, then can't live with the consquences when it's pointed out how wrong/offensive they are.

[havasack]

Re: Discipline!

Amethyst I think you have it wrong. Most people today are desperate to speak their mind but support their views loyally like a football supporter and don't examine them when new information comes to light. Also strange that you pick on people ripping off the benefits system which is a tiny thing compared corporate and high end tax avoidance which is mainly done by those who have lied and robbed us into the positon we are now in.

[amethyst]

Re: Discipline!

I think a lot of people are afraid to speak their mind these days no matter what they think,there is always someone to criticise your views.Lack of respect is missing
nobody cares anymore if you cant beat them then join them attitude.The people who rip the systems off by claiming benefits when they are not entitled to seem to get off lightly.In the passed if they had done more thorough checks on folks before dishing out money then maybe we wouldnt have been in the mess we are today

[ayrshireman]

Re: Discipline!

The reason why I asked this was because on Digital Spy the other posters got a bit concerned that I was creepy because of the amount of material I was posting on there about caning in schools, and as a result I've been banned from there for a fortnight. Although we don't seem to be as petty on here as what they are on there, I don't want to be banned off here as well, so that's why I'm trying to steer the conversation in a different direction.

I was a DS member from 2006 to 2010, gave up and left. Far too many ar*es on it.

[philipdalton]

Re: Discipline!

Since this is a thread on discipline, and not just corporal punishment, does anybody have any views on capital punishment they'd like to express on here?

The reason why I asked this was because on Digital Spy the other posters got a bit concerned that I was creepy because of the amount of material I was posting on there about caning in schools, and as a result I've been banned from there for a fortnight. Although we don't seem to be as petty on here as what they are on there, I don't want to be banned off here as well, so that's why I'm trying to steer the conversation in a different direction.

[ayrshireman]

Re: Discipline!

I did not mean to imply that anyone who gives their child the occasional swat on the backside with their hand is an abuser, although I accept that may be the way my comment came across and for that I apologize. my post was more to do with people who regularly beat their kids using belts, canes, slippers or whatever. just because something was acceptable in the past does not mean it should go unchallenged in the present, its not so long ago that wife beating was viewed as acceptable and I'm sure some would still argue for and wish it was. children need discipline but there are better ways of teaching it than beating the s**t out of them. I think its the people who are hell bent on imposing physical discipline who are the ones out of step with the rest of society and those like myself who are the ever growing majority.

Don't apologise, that's how I read it. My repost was actually aimed at 'those people' who argue smacking=abuse, not actually at you, apologies if I didn't make it clear.

[sweep]

Re: Discipline!

Whilst I have the deepest sympathy for what you went through, and clearly it was appalling, it has left you not understandably, with an inability to see the issue of physical discipline from an unbiased viewpoint. Most people will try to see the issue from a neutral viewpoint. I fully understand why and sympathise why. But you will see any physical discipline as unacceptable. And in your case, abuse.

Which is a comment myself and others will not agree with. Whilst not the child of abusive parents myself, I know those who were, I dealt with real child beating scum/abusers/child sex abusers in a previous worklife in Glasgow and for that reason I cannot and will not accept that a loving parent smacking on occasion a child for legitimate reasons is the same as someone who truly beats children. I have seen the latter and to call normal parents who smack 'abusers', is not only a grossly simplistic suggestion but is both offensive to parents to people like yourself and worse who suffer/suffered real abuse at the hands of family.

I believe parents must have the right and option to physically smack their own children. I believe that govt and society should stay out of family life unless genuine harm may come to a child. I also as strongly believe that smacking should be used very sparingly after verbal warnings and should only be a short, sharp open handed smack to the bottom or legs. In short, an option that should be exercised with great thought and physical care.

Again, my heart truly goes to you for what you suffered.

I did not mean to imply that anyone who gives their child the occasional swat on the backside with their hand is an abuser, although I accept that may be the way my comment came across and for that I apologize. my post was more to do with people who regularly beat their kids using belts, canes, slippers or whatever. just because something was acceptable in the past does not mean it should go unchallenged in the present, its not so long ago that wife beating was viewed as acceptable and I'm sure some would still argue for and wish it was. children need discipline but there are better ways of teaching it than beating the s**t out of them. I think its the people who are hell bent on imposing physical discipline who are the ones out of step with the rest of society and those like myself who are the ever growing majority.