CBBC before CBBC

[Arran]

CBBC launched on 9 September 1985 with Philip Schofield in the Broom Cupboard studio.

What was your experience of the time slot for children's programmes in the afternoon during the first half of the 1980s before CBBC?

The programmes were similar to those incorporated into CBBC, but the presentation and scheduling were different.

Was the creation of CBBC really a breakthrough as far as kids were concerned like CITV was?

What was the time slot called before CBBC?

[George 1978]

I suppose that CBBC (or Children's BBC back then) was an inspiration from Children's ITV (CITV) and making continuity prior to children's television programmes more friendly an relevant to the indended audience. My household was an ITV one and so I didn't see too much of Children's BBC. I know that old episodes of Grange Hill downloaded onto YouTube in the first half of the 1980s at least were original TXs as some of them have brief BBC 1 globe coninuity before linking into the programme rather than have Phillip Schofield or Andi Peters linking into it from the Broom Cupboard. Don't fotget that it was around the same time that they poached Roland Rat from TV-am as well.

I think it all stemmed from when it turned from "Now on Granada - Rainbow" into "Now on Children's ITV - Rainbow" at the start of 1983, and that Charles Foster became Matthew Kelly as a result. Never mind about regional continuity - the new Children's ITV was more friendlier to my own age group back then. If Children's BBC had poached Danielle Nicholls from CITV - (who I regarded as a stereotype of an average teenage female viewer in the mid to late 1990s) - then perhaps I would have watched BBC 1 more during children's hour.

Regarding CBBC, I had wondered whether the BBC had got any feedback about the changes back in September 1985, with parents writing to Points of View, perhaps? I would like to see episodes from that time to see if there was any correspondence - it was just before Anne Robinson joined. Also, whether anyone from Tunbridge Wells actually wrote in to ask how much of their Licence Fee went towards the cost of those changes in 1985. At the end of the day however, it's the programmes themselves which were for kids, and the nature of the continuity wouldn't have made much difference to the programme itself to be honest.

[George 1978]

What was the time slot called before CBBC?

Did the BBC have an official name for Kids' TV before Children's BBC was coined? I just assumed that the closest they had to giving strands to children's television was Watch With Mother and See Saw.

[Arran]

I definitely agree that there was something warm and friendly about CITV with its own branding and continuity presenters. CITV appeared almost like a TV channel of its own, separate from the regional ITV company. Like a small version of TV-AM for an hour or so in the afternoon! In comparison, the BBC presentation feels cold and it's harder to determine where the children's TV slot starts and finishes as programmes are integrated into the main TV schedule with no separate branding.

See Saw was the precursor of CBeebies. It predates CITV, so I have wondered why the BBC never got round to producing the CBBC brand for programmes for older children before ITV launched CITV.

It's an interesting point you make about parents writing to Points of View asking how much of the TV Licence fee was allocated to CBBC continuity. I never thought about this one. It would have been possible to create the CBBC branding and idents for the time slot without the Broom Cupboard continuity for pennies. Something closer to Watch It! rather than CITV, but it would probably have had its own dedicated continuity announcers.

At what point in time was CBBC commonly referred to as CBBC in speech as its original name and ident was Children's BBC?

[Richard1978]

For a couple of years before the Broom Cupboard there were those BBC Micro animated characters to link programmes.

I remember being just the right age for the Broom Cupboard era of CBBC, which Philip Schofield, Andy Crane, Andi Peters and a other few fill-ins (Simon Parkin & Debbie Flint come to mind) managed to make the links seem fun without making it feel forced. I've never worked how scripted things were, or they mostly improvised things.

But First This! allowed for more scope during the holidays.

[George 1978]

The Children's ITV continuity gave an illusion from 1983 to 1987 that presenters (and even actors and actresses in character) had literally stepped out of their own programmes and into the CITV studio, although I rack my brains to think whether they actually introduced any of their own programmes when they did that! They must have done so at some point! The late Gudrun Ure appearing just as much as Supergran in the continuity studio as she would have done in her own series was a great thing to see - no way was she famous for being an actual continuity announcer herself, but the novelty-ness of her doing that (which was a popular and familiar thing to do in the mid 1980s).

Rod Hull and Emu who did Children's ITV in December 1985 probably was the best, also by virtue that they did December that year - probably the best month of the year for obvious reasons which meant the run-up to Christmas and that meant they were more successful on screen. Rod and Emu also did pantomime at the Nottingham Theatre Royal that year as well, so it was a double treat for Nottingham fans of Rod and Emu as well!

[Richard1978]

The Children's ITV continuity gave an illusion from 1983 to 1987 that presenters (and even actors and actresses in character) had literally stepped out of their own programmes and into the CITV studio, although I rack my brains to think whether they actually introduced any of their own programmes when they did that! They must have done so at some point! The late Gudrun Ure appearing just as much as Supergran in the continuity studio as she would have done in her own series was a great thing to see - no way was she famous for being an actual continuity announcer herself, but the novelty-ness of her doing that (which was a popular and familiar thing to do in the mid 1980s).

Rod Hull and Emu who did Children's ITV in December 1985 probably was the best, also by virtue that they did December that year - probably the best month of the year for obvious reasons which meant the run-up to Christmas and that meant they were more successful on screen. Rod and Emu also did pantomime at the Nottingham Theatre Royal that year as well, so it was a double treat for Nottingham fans of Rod and Emu as well!

The Terrahawks puppets & Marmalade Atkins also did some CITV links.

[Arran]

Godzilla first season episodes 1 to 8 from March to June 1980.

Godzilla first season episodes 9 to 13 plus repeat of episodes 6 to 8 from April to May 1981.

Godzilla second season episodes 14 to 26, except 25 Island of Doom, from October to December 1984. The BBC never broadcast Island of Doom for some unknown reason.

Dungeons and Dragons first season episodes 1 to 13 from September to December 1984.

Dogtanian from January to June 1985.

[Arran]

Dungeons and Dragons second season episodes 14 to 21 from April to June 1985.

Fonz and the Happy Days Gang episodes 1 to 12 from January to March 1984.

Fonz and the Happy Days Gang episodes 13 to 24 from January to March 1985.

This cartoon seems to have only been repeated on Saturday Superstore from 18 January to 29 March 1986.

[Arran]

Last week schedules before CBBC

Monday 2 September 1985
16:20 Mike, Mop and the Moke: Rockpools *
16:35 Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends: Along Came Spidey *
17:00 Newsround
17:10 Blue Peter Countryside Special

Tuesday 3 September 1985
16:20 Heads and Tails *
16:35 Laurel and Hardy
16:40 The Kwicky Koala Show: Kwicky's Karnival Kaper: Bearly Asleep: Sea Dawg Dirty *
17:00 Newsround
17:10 Grandad

Wednesday 4 September 1985
16:20 King Rollo *
16:25 Bric-a-Brac *
16:35 Laurel and Hardy
16:40 Battle of the Planets *
17:00 Newsround
17:10 Gentle Ben *

Thursday 5 September 1985
16:20 Gran: Gran's Goat
16:25 Stop-Go!: Go Train Go
16:35 Lassie
17:00 Newsround
17:10 Platypus Cove

Friday 6 September 1985. Last day before CBBC.
16:20 Little Misses and the Mister Men: Little Miss Plump; Mister Happy *
16:35 Dastardly and Muttley *
16:40 The Record Breakers
17:05 Rentaghost *

* Programme continued into CBBC in week commencing 9 September

The late start of 16:20 was due to the Trades Union Congress. CBBC started at 15:55.

[escorteclipse1990]

I remember that Children's BBC had Friday film specials that showed films from The Children's Film Foundation from the late 1960's and 70's and 80's. I think they started The Friday Film Specials around 1987 and it ended in 1989 I really enjoyed watching those old films when I was a kid. Terry On The Fence, Sammy's Super Tee Shirt etc, etc.

[Arran]

1984 Overview

Children’s programmes commence at 15:55 on Tuesday 3 January. From Tuesday 19 June to Friday 31 August a later start at 16:20 due to various sporting events, with features films or documentaries on some days. From Monday 3 September to Friday 7 September a slightly earlier start at either 16:15 or 16:10 due to the Trades Union Congress and a feature film. From Monday 10 September an earlier start at 15:50.

The schedule begins with Playschool, five days a week.

Newsround on Mondays to Thursdays. Starting at 17:00 or 17:05 from January to Wednesday 29 August, and 16:50, 17:00 or 17:05 from Thursday 30 August to December.

Newsround Extra starts at 16:55 or 17:00 on Fridays from 8 June to 27 July.

Late starts at 16:20 have just one programme between Playschool and Newsround.

Disrupted schedules
Friday 20 April – Good Friday
Monday 23 April – Easter Monday
Monday 7 May – Bank Holiday
Monday 28 May – Bank Holiday
Monday 27 August – Bank holiday
Tuesday 25 December – Christmas Day
Wednesday 26 December – Boxing Day

Over on BBC 2
Tuesday 13 March – Budget
Wednesday 6 June (Before 17:05) – D-Day 40 Years On

Christmas week
Monday 2 January - Only Blue Peter
Monday 24 December - Only Jackanory and Blue Peter
Thursday 27 December - Only Grange Hill
Friday 28 December - Only Benji, Zax and the Alien Prince
Monday 31 December - Only Blue Peter

Special days
Monday 18 June – Blue Peter Double
Monday 3 September - Blue Peter Silver Jubilee

[Arran]

Regional variations

One would think that regional variations between children’s programmes only existed on regional ITV before Watch It! Was launched in 1981 and the BBC had a unified schedule across the UK. Surprisingly, there were several regional variations in the BBC schedule in 1984 in Scotland and Wales.

The House that Joe Built, followed by a Scots Gaelic programme A’ Cheud Turus, were broadcast in Scotland on Wednesdays from 8 February to 7 March instead of the first 5 episodes of Rentaghost.

Rest of the UK
16:40 Rentaghost

Scotland
16:40 The House that Joe Built
16:50 A’ Cheud Turus


On Wednesday 30 May The Perils of Penelope Pitstop was not broadcast in Wales to accommodate The Urdd Eisteddfod.

Rest of the UK
16:20 The Perils of Penelope Pitstop
16:40 Take Two

Wales
16:20 Take Two
16:45 The Urdd Eisteddfod


Star Trek was broadcast on Tuesdays from 4 September to 18 December, except in Wales where Ask the Family was broadcast from 4 September to 23 October and Gloria from 30 October to 18 December, and in Scotland on Tuesday 16 October where Rolf Harris’s Cartoon Time was broadcast instead.

On Friday 28 September the last episode of Stopwatch was not broadcast in Wales and Crackerjack was broadcast at an earlier time of 16:50 rather than 17:15. This was to accommodate Wales Today (not a children’s programme) which started at 17:35.

The autumn season of Grange Hill was broadcast on Mondays from 24 September to 17 December along with Thursday 20 December at 18:30 in Wales, and on Thursdays from 6 September to 27 December at either 17:30 or 17:35 (17:25 on 20 December) in the rest of the UK. This was to accommodate Wales Today which started at 17:35.

On days where Grange Hill started at the earlier times, there was a 5 minute (10 minute on 20 December) interval period in Wales before Wales Today Started, except on Thursday 6 September where a 5 minute cartoon was broadcast.

Rather bizarrely, Grange Hill was Broadcast in Wales on Thursdays 20 September, 11 October, 13 December at 17:35 along with 27 December when Wales Today was not broadcast.

Benji Zax and the Alien Prince was broadcast from Fridays 5 October to 28 December, except in Wales apart from episodes on 9 November, 16 November, and 28 December. Hartbeat and Crackerjack were broadcast at earlier times in Wales. This was to accommodate Wales Today which started at 17:35.

For some strange reason, Hartbeat was not broadcast in Wales on 9 November. The schedule on 16 November was the same for the entire UK. On 5 October there was a 5 minute cartoon at 16:30 before Hartbeat in Wales, and on 12 October and 19 October there was a 5 minute interval before Hartbeat in Wales – very unusual in the middle of a children’s programme block. This interval was (more sensibly) relocated after Crackerjack in the next week.


Friday 12 October, 19 October (Rest of the UK)
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Benji Zax and the Alien Prince
16:50 Hartbeat
17:15 Crackerjack
17:58 Weather report
18:00 The Six O’Clock News

Friday 12 October, 19 October Wales
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Interval
16:35 Hartbeat
16:55 Crackerjack
17:35 Wales Today


Friday 26 October (Rest of the UK)
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Benji Zax and the Alien Prince
16:50 Hartbeat
17:15 Crackerjack
17:58 Weather report
18:00 The Six O’Clock News

Friday 26 October (Wales)
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Hartbeat
16:50 Crackerjack
17:30 Interval
17:35 Wales Today


Friday 9 November (Rest of the UK)
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Benji Zax and the Alien Prince
16:50 Hartbeat
17:15 Crackerjack
17:58 Weather report
18:00 The Six O’Clock News

Friday 9 November (Wales)
16:15 Beat the Teacher
16:30 Benji Zax and the Alien Prince
16:50 Crackerjack
17:30 Interval
17:35 Wales Today


It’s almost unimaginable to anybody used to CBBC in the 1990s that at 16:30 kids were happily watching Dungeons and Dragons on Monday, then were staring at a 5 minute interval on Friday, if they happened to live in Wales!

[Richard1978]

I remember Northern Ireland used to finish CBBC early because their local news was before the 6 o'clock news & Neighbours after it.

[Arran]

I remember Northern Ireland used to finish CBBC early because their local news was before the 6 o'clock news & Neighbours after it.

What year was this? I assumed a completely unified and homogeneous schedule for CBBC because it was presented nationally whereas regional continuity announcers were used in 1984.

I couldn't find any regional variations for Northern Ireland in 1984 so I would be surprised if any existed in later years unless it was a one off special news programme disrupting the schedule.